UNC/Georgia Tech

[Rich]

9:07 left, second half. Anyone have access to the video?

[Rich]

4:20, second half as well.

Doris Burke is an idiot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

4:20, second half as well.

Doris Burke is an idiot.

I did not even see the play and I already know this fact.

Peace

[APG]

First play:



Second play:

[JRutledge]

Play #1--Block only because it appears that the player is in the RA. Not by much but with the heels.

Play #2--I have a PC foul. I think the defender was there and the very little movement is not enough for me to call a block.

Peace

[APG]

First play is definitely a block...not sure if the C saw it (I think he should have been able to), but if he saw the defender in the RA, then he needs to give that information to the lead.

Second play: the lead calls a player control foul and motions that the shooter led with a foot, and I tend to agree. I'd have a foul on the shooter, regardless of the RA (if it was in play here).

[Nevadaref]

First play involves a secondary defender who has his right heel on the arc of the RA at the time of the contact.
Second play is also a secondary defender, but he is fully outside the arc and has obtained ILGP before the opponent becomes airborne.

I'd say the crew was 1/2 in NCAA, but would be 2/2 in NFHS.

[zm1283]

What infinite wisdom did Doris bestow on us in her baritone-like voice?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I'd say the crew was 1/2 in NCAA, but would be 2/2 in NFHS.

And the operative word is crew. Someone could have helped the Lead on the first play to get that play right.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Block by RA in #1.
Charge in #2.

[BktBallRef]

I think the teammate's foot blocked the view of McAdoo's foot on the RA arc.

The Heels seem to get Burke every time they play on ESPN lately. Good time to mute the TV and listen to the radio broadcast.

[JetMetFan]

C definitely should've been able to come in and help on play #1. If you stop the clip at 0:06 or at 0:14 there's no one blocking his view of the RA. For me, the big hint would been the UNC player backing away from A1. It's kind of tough to back up that deep in the lane and not end up in the RA.

Since the play was coming from the strong side the T could've seen this as well. I realize he has two players in his area but that really wasn't a competetive matchup.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

C definitely should've been able to come in and help on play #1. If you stop the clip at 0:06 or at 0:14 there's no one blocking his view of the RA. For me, the big hint would been the UNC player backing away from A1. It's kind of tough to back up that deep in the lane and not end up in the RA.

Since the play was coming from the strong side the T could've seen this as well. I realize he has two players in his area but that really wasn't a competetive matchup.

That brings up an interesting question...

For the most part, the RA is to address secondary defenders rotating from a position such that they don't have time to get through and outside the RA to set up in LGP and the stop under the basket having never been otherwise in the opponents path.

In this case, the defender actually had LGP outside of the RA initially. He then stepped back into the RA as the opponent approached. Perhaps that should make him the primary defender???? At what point does a secondary defender become a primary? Clearly they do at some point...where is it?

[JRutledge]

Here is the rule in the rulebook.

4-61

Section 61. Secondary Defender

Art. 1. A secondary defender is a teammate who has helped a primary defender after that player has been beaten by an opponent because he/she failed to establish or maintain a guarding position. A defensive player is beaten when the offensive player’s head and shoulders get past the defender.

Art. 2. A secondary defender is a teammate who double teams a low post player.

Art. 3. After an offensive rebound, there are no secondary defenders when the
rebounder makes an immediate move to the basket.

Art. 4. In an outnumbering fast-break situation, any defensive player(s) initially shall be a secondary defender.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Okay...I'm going to revise my position based on an NCAAW interpretation update we received in December of 2011 and the last two posts by JRut and Camron. Play #1 was called correctly (assuming NCAAM received the same update we did):

*A secondary defender can establish guarding position in the restricted area then can re-establish legal guarding position outside the restricted area before the ball handler gets to her. After re-establishing a guarding position outside the restricted area, the defender can then guard the ball handler legally and take a charge either inside or outside the restricted area.

Again, if NCAAM received the same interp we did then the play was called correctly. The UNC player first established LGP in the RA, then he came out of the RA and re-established LGP. Once he did that he was okay.

JRut's post jarred my memory since the RA rule says a player can't establish initial LGP in the RA. It doesn't say establishing outside of the RA then maintaining into the RA is illegal, which makes sense because it would severely hamper a team's ability to play defense.

Again, if any NCAAM officials can check Arbiter from December of 2011 you probably have the same update we did.