Game Management

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Don't miss travels on either team

I'm just curious why this would be something you'd consider significant. I could see something like "protect the shooter", but why do you think getting all these is important to this type of game?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm just curious why this would be something you'd consider significant. I could see something like "protect the shooter", but why do you think getting all these is important to this type of game?

When in Rome....

Around here, it's expected that some marginal stuff gets overlooked in favor of the team getting it handed to them. One of the most consistent and early critiques I received was, "That was a travel, but you might want to let it go in this game."

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Adam

When in Rome....

Around here, it's expected that some marginal stuff gets overlooked in favor of the team getting it handed to them. One of the most consistent and early critiques I received was, "That was a travel, but you might want to let it go in this game."

Adam:

That philosophy works well at the JrHS levels and below when the skill level of players on both teams are all over the spectrum. But at the FR level and above (as well as highly skilled JrHS games) a travel is a travel is a travel.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Adam:

That philosophy works well at the JrHS levels and below when the skill level of players on both teams are all over the spectrum. But at the FR level and above (as well as highly skilled JrHS games) a travel is a travel is a travel.

MTD, Sr.

When in Rome, Mark. When in Rome.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm just curious why this would be something you'd consider significant. I could see something like "protect the shooter", but why do you think getting all these is important to this type of game?

Just mentioning that it the games I've done that match the OP, the losing coach complained about the winning team traveling a lot. He could be insinuating that the supposed "travels' make it difficult for his team to compete.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Just mentioning that it the games I've done that match the OP, the losing coach complained about the winning team traveling a lot. He could be insinuating that the supposed "travels' make it difficult for his team to compete.

It's likely going to go in the other direction if it's a blowout. I may have to adjust my traveling filter if one team can't bring it up the floor without traveling - otherwise, we'll suck whatever life there is (and if it's a huge blowout, probably litte-to-none already) right out of the game.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's likely going to go in the other direction if it's a blowout. I may have to adjust my traveling filter if one team can't bring it up the floor without traveling - otherwise, we'll suck whatever life there is (and if it's a huge blowout, probably litte-to-none already) right out of the game.

Yes - for some the travel filter for the losing team may be lightened.

But where are traveling complaints going to come from? The coach winning by 40 isn't going to complain if the losing team travels. I'm just saying that a losing coach won't say much to you if you don't miss the winning team travels. (Assuming this isn't the rare game with zero travels.)

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Yes - for some the travel filter for the losing team may be lightened.

But where are traveling complaints going to come from? The coach winning by 40 isn't going to complain if the losing team travels. I'm just saying that a losing coach won't say much to you if you don't miss the winning team travels. (Assuming this isn't the rare game with zero travels.)

I see what you're saying now. Another game management lesson I learned just last week which I'm still thinking about - we had a team getting beat by about 15 in the waning minutes of the game, and I was working with 2 very respected college officials. Game was going fine - no issues with the officiating. With under a minute left, I was new lead in transition on a breakaway for the team that was losing and the lone defender was very athletic and playing excellent defense all the way down and was able to get great position as the player stopped and jumped for a 3 footer that missed. The coach was up wanting a foul and is in my C's ear. There's a stoppage for a violation and the coach is asking me why there wasn't a foul and I just tell him it was great defense. Game ends.

As I'm walking to the dressing room with my partner, who was the C getting an earful, he says I might have just called the foul at that point in the game. It wouldn't have affected the outcome and the coach would be content. I told him it wasn't a foul. He said that coach never gets up and complains and he was up in my ear and a foul would have prevented him from getting upset and it wouldn't have hurt the game. Game management.

I get what he said, but I'm still thinking about it. He's a big dog in the association. While it shouldn't matter, it still does.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Smitty

As I'm walking to the dressing room with my partner, who was the C getting an earful, he says I might have just called the foul at that point in the game. It wouldn't have affected the outcome and the coach would be content. I told him it wasn't a foul. He said that coach never gets up and complains and he was up in my ear and a foul would have prevented him from getting upset and it wouldn't have hurt the game. Game management.

I get what he said, but I'm still thinking about it. He's a big dog in the association. While it shouldn't matter, it still does.

If that contact/no contact was on film/video, what would it show?

If it clearly showed no foul, and said coach watched it with you, how would he react? If you ask him directly, "do you want me to contravene my integrity and call a non-existent foul?", what would he say?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If that contact/no contact was on film/video, what would it show?

If it clearly showed no foul, and said coach watched it with you, how would he react? If you ask him directly, "do you want me to contravene my integrity and call a non-existent foul?", what would he say?

I think, after the fact, he would be fine, but I don't think that's the point. I think the point was it was a heat of the moment kind of thing that could have been diffused with a call. A game management tool. This was the takeaway I was supposed to get from it.

Could it have been a foul in another game? Maybe - there was contact. Would it have been a foul at any other time in this game? No.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

...
As I'm walking to the dressing room with my partner, who was the C getting an earful, he says I might have just called the foul at that point in the game. It wouldn't have affected the outcome and the coach would be content. I told him it wasn't a foul. He said that coach never gets up and complains and he was up in my ear and a foul would have prevented him from getting upset and it wouldn't have hurt the game. Game management.

I get what he said, but I'm still thinking about it. He's a big dog in the association. While it shouldn't matter, it still does.

So what did he expect you to do, call a foul after the coach started complaining? How are you supposed to know that the coach would get upset over that play? Or was there contact on the play and you passed on it? (I see now that you said there was). I'm assuming there were other plays where the crew passed on contact and you say you had a game where there had been no issues with the coaches, so how are you supposed to know this one play would trigger something?

I see where your partner is coming from as far as learning a game mgmt tool, but I have a problem with the way he presented it, as if you were supposed to know that all of a sudden this one play would cause a problem.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So what did he expect you to do, call a foul after the coach started complaining? How are you supposed to know that the coach would get upset over that play? Or was there contact on the play and you passed on it?

Good question. I think he was irritated that he had to take the brunt of the coach's emotions. As I said earlier there was minimal contact that would not have been a foul at any other time in that game. If anything, the defensive player, who was faster and more athletic, had great position and it was the offensive player who created any of the contact. During the game, there were definitely more calls made against the losing team on drives to the basket because they were not nearly as athletic and able to control their bodies, so they would often be late defending and foul as a result. This play was just another case where the winning team was more athletic and able to maintain good defensive position and not foul as a result.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Smitty

As I'm walking to the dressing room with my partner, who was the C getting an earful, he says I might have just called the foul at that point in the game. It wouldn't have affected the outcome and the coach would be content. I told him it wasn't a foul. He said that coach never gets up and complains and he was up in my ear and a foul would have prevented him from getting upset and it wouldn't have hurt the game. Game management.

I get what he said, but I'm still thinking about it. He's a big dog in the association. While it shouldn't matter, it still does.

While I can understand letting things go just a little bit in favor of a team getting shellacked... I can not justify what you were told here - to call a foul (or violation) where one doesn't exist.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Smitty

The coach was up wanting a foul and is in my C's ear.

Here's my question: Since he was the C, was he in position to call it late?

If he wants to do that then explain why he did it afterwards, especially as a senior guy, that's on him. As was mentioned before, if there hadn't been any problems up until that point there's no way for you to know there was going to be an issue.

[Adam]

This lack of integrity is appalling.