missed backcourt

[rsl]

Two man girls JV. I am Trail in the backcourt.

Team B is pressing. I have a 10 second count on A1, who is double teamed and trapped on the table side sideline. A1 jumps and throws a desperation pass to A2, who jumps between two defenders, catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt near the sideline opposite table. I didn't see A2 jump- I only see her land, but from her position I can presume she jumped from the front court.

question 1: Do I call the backcourt based on a presumed start to her jump?

My partner saw A2 jump and knows she jumped from frontcourt, but it is my call as trail.

Question 2: If you are the partner, do you make the call for me?

Question 3:As a trail covering a press in two man, how do I cover that much area of the court and see this play?

[ODog]

Absolutely do not make the call based merely on a presumption. If you're not sure what you have, you have nothing.

I wouldn't beat yourself up on not covering enough area to see the play through. There isn't one official who will see "everything" in a given game.

If I'm your partner (and you say he KNOWS this is a backcourt violation), I jump in and make the call once it's clear you're not going to make it. It's better to be late and right than to knowingly let a blatant violation go for the sake of PCA or not having someone yell, "That's so late" ... a complaint I've never fully understood anyway, especially when the complainant usually also concedes it's the correct call.

[rsl]

I didn't say he knew it was a violation- I said he knew that she jumped from frontcourt. It turns out he doesn't know the backcourt rule and thought that "she needs to have three points down" to get frontcourt status, so there is no violation.

Good partner otherwise, but he blew this one rule.

So, I got no help from my partner.

[just another ref]

I would hate too see a call based on any presumption, but it is not inconceivable in this situation that it would be obvious to you that she had jumped from the frontcourt without actually seeing her feet leave the floor.

Depending on the position of all parties involved, it is possible to make this call from the lead.

[JetMetFan]

Chalk it up as a missed call and a lesson/rule learned for your partner. Don't call what you "think" happened.

As for court coverage, it happens to all of us. One question would be how close were you to the trap situation? If you were right on top of the kids it was going to be difficult to see much else on the court. If you were able to get a little more depth - tough since it was on the tableside sideline - that might have helped. If you're back a little you can still see potential fouls and violations while also getting a view of the court.

[maven]

I agree with the consensus: don't guess.

If coach complains, tell him that's a $40 call (for a third official, not a bribe).

[rsl]

Thanks to all. JetMetFan, I was right on top of the trap so I will need to think about stepping back a bit. The coach had exactly the same view as me since I was right in front of him, but of course he was willing to presume the start of the jump in his favor. Maven, you are right that this would have been easy in three man.

Strangely enough, the varsity guys agreed with my partner in the post game, so it was not a learning experience for my partner. I wish the backcourt rule was more clearly written so I could prevail in the post game discussion.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Depending on the position of all parties involved, it is possible to make this call from the lead.

If I was the lead, in my normal halfcourt game position behind the endline, I'm going to be very, very, hesitant about calling a backcourt violation from my lead position. However, if my partner, as the trail, makes a backcourt call, and if I have some additional information to offer, then I may have a quick pow wow with him, offer the information, and allow him to make a decision about changing, or not changing, his call.

[johnny d]

billy, in the op it wasnt a normal halfcourt set, it was a pressing situation, so i hope as the new lead you wouldnt already be down behind the endline, especially in a 2-man game.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by rsl

Two man girls JV. I am Trail in the backcourt.

Team B is pressing. I have a 10 second count on A1, who is double teamed and trapped on the table side sideline. A1 jumps and throws a desperation pass to A2, who jumps between two defenders, catches the ball in the air and lands in the backcourt near the sideline opposite table. I didn't see A2 jump- I only see her land, but from her position I can presume she jumped from the front court.

question 1: Do I call the backcourt based on a presumed start to her jump?

My partner saw A2 jump and knows she jumped from frontcourt, but it is my call as trail.

Question 2: If you are the partner, do you make the call for me?

Question 3:As a trail covering a press in two man, how do I cover that much area of the court and see this play?

Q1: We try to avoid this, but I've seen some vets in my area make excellent calls based on experience.

Q2: In a press, I'm going to be helping as L, so yes I will make this call.

Q3: Not sure you can.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

billy, in the op it wasn't a normal halfcourt set, it was a pressing situation, so i hope as the new lead you wouldn't already be down behind the endline, especially in a 2-man game.

I was just clarifying just another ref's "Depending on the position of all parties involved". Even in context, the statement just seemed a little too open ended, especially for rookie Forum members. I actually made a backcourt call last week, as the lead, helping on the press, I was positioned right on the division line, so it's was easy peasey lemon squeezy.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by rsl

Strangely enough, the varsity guys agreed with my partner in the post game, so it was not a learning experience for my partner.

This would be the most troubling part of the situation. The varsity guys knew she jumped from the frontcourt, caught the ball, landed in backcourt and thought it was okay? Yikes!

[Rich]

I think if an official is in position at the division line and can save the crew, he should.

If the official is somewhere along the baseline, he should remember his responsibilities and remember that sometimes being right isn't the most important thing.

[Brad]

Pretty sure that when Rich says "save the crew" he means this type of play

Edited by APG...mainly so I can say I edited a Brad post

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Brad

Pretty sure that when Rich says "save the crew" he means this type of play

Oh boy.