Missed Called

[whiskers_ump]

I know one BLUE that is feeling
pretty bad rite now. The person that was
on second for the Bronx/Calf. game. He
kinda forgot how quickly those kids can
round the bases. How about the Calif. fans
receiving the phone call in stands to make
the appeal? or what?

glen

[Rog]

But the Oceanside team manager and pitcher showed real class during the post game interview by dismissing that call and giving credit to the NY team.

That umpire was hustling to get into position; but, it seems he took his eyes off the runner for a second too long!

Crap happens don't we know.....

[Rich Ives]

C'mon Papa. TV showed the fans yelling and pointing as soon as it happened. The cell phone guy was shown after it had been replayed several times.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
C'mon Papa. TV showed the fans yelling and pointing as soon as it happened. The cell phone guy was shown after it had been replayed several times.

Rich,

Was not suggesting it had any bearing, was
just replying to what the fan that was being
interviewed in stands told the reporter.

glen

[JohmPMiller]

Hooray for the Oceanside team and coach for their great outlook. Winning teams and coaches don't blame umpires for their losses. The only person in the group who showed a complete lack of class was the interviewer for trying to solicit some kind of negative response from every one he talked too. Shame on him. No one feels worse about the call than the BLUE. We have all been there.

[peter_s_n]

My perspective - everybody is human - umpire didn't SEE the kid miss the base, therefore called it that way.

(Imagine the flak that would have arisen should the opposite have happened - runner tags base, but gets called out on appeal - WHOA!)

Once heard it stated that no parent has the right to complain about (umpiring) mistakes until their child commits no mistakes on the field themselves.

[Jim Porter]

ABC and ESPN continue to report that it was a cell phone call that had the parents yelling for an appeal in the NY vs. CA US semi-final game. I've heard it reported on ESPN, ESPN2, and today during the fifth inning of the U.S. Championship Game on ABC.

I think it coincides with the order of events perfectly. There were a few moments when no one was yelling for an appeal, and it looked as though the defense had completely missed it. Just a few moments later, and the stands were going nuts trying to the message across to the players.

I firmly believe that immediate TV replays and cell phones played a role in riling the crowd enough to convince the defense to appeal. In reality, maybe one or two people in the stands might've actually witnessed the missed base. Under normal circumstances, these people might not be vocal enough or even confident enough in what they saw to convince a crowd to vocalize and set the defense's appeal in motion.

But a cell phone, coupled with immediate and repeated replays, gave those parents conclusive proof. From there, it was a small matter of moments before the whole crowd was in on what was happening.

This is unprecedented in baseball. Previously, some pro teams would employ a runner who would emerge from the clubhouse armed with the information from TV replays to communicate to the manager whether or not his argument was valid. If it was valid, the runner would emerge from the tunnel, and the manager would then know with certainty that the umpire blew the call. This would normally lead to an ejection.

But for television and cell phones to play such a big role in affecting the actions on the field, to me, is a bit much. I'm quite uncomfortable with that idea, and I hope Little League addresses this dilemma for future World Series contests.

[senior]

With all the pontificating we're being exposed to because of the missed base dilemma, I think we're forgetting one important factor.

Has anyone paused long enough to realize the great camera work which enabled all this brouhaha? How about the alert reaction from Brent Musberger which called it to our attention?

Playing the "devil's advocate" role for just a moment, let me throw out the question - I wonder how many other bases were missed during the series, but not noticed because the TV crew didn't happen to catch it like they did on the "missed call" play?

[Tim C]

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[Edited by Tim C on Aug 27th, 2001 at 08:43 AM]

[bluezebra]

TimC:

What do you consider "qualified"? I'm not an advocate for LL. Just read some of my posts. But I've seen MLB umps with years of experience, not only blow judgement calls, but rules as well. Back in the '60s, an entire 4-man crew misinterpreted a batting out of order appeal. It can happen to any of us.

Bob

[GarthB]

I think that part of the problem we saw at the LLWS this years is the lack of experience that some of the umpires have with pressure situations and major level games. Not many of us work before thousands of fans and a national television audience.

LL could easily eliminate most of the suprises they had with umpires, and keep their precious volunteer policy intact if they feel the need.

They should begin putting a pool together of competent experienced umpires very early in the season and have an evaluator visit each one several times a year. Surely they have the money for a quality control program.

The umpires in this pool would be assigned major tournaments and used in regional play-offs. Those who performed the best would be moved up to the LLWS program at the end of the year.

While there will always be some mistakes made, this would reduce their number greatly.

It would also remove SOME of the politics we have now with regions recommending umpires.
The

[Tim C]

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[Edited by Tim C on Aug 27th, 2001 at 08:43 AM]

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump

I know one BLUE that is feeling
pretty bad rite now. The person that was
on second for the Bronx/Calf. game. He
kinda forgot how quickly those kids can
round the bases. How about the Calif. fans
receiving the phone call in stands to make
the appeal? or what?

Glen we have all blown calls, just not in front of 30,000 people and millions of viewers.

Let's examine the cause for the missed base.

If this semi-final game were played on a 90ft. diamond, IMO the call would not have been missed. Why!

U2, could simply turn around and watch r1 touch the base. He would be stationary as we are taught when we make a call. On a 90 ft. diamond, U2 would have been right in front of the play and had a perfect angle.

In the play described (60 ft. diamond), U2 was moving in at the same time the runner was advancing. Therefore, U2 was behind runner (cardinal sin of umpiring) and also was moving. So he had 2 things against him. He was behind the play and was moving.

My observation was this: Should the PU or U1 watch the touching of bases? U2 was in the outfield and as trained, came into the infield when the ball went into the outfield, however, the play was slow to develop and thus U2 was caught out of position.

The PU has perhaps the best view, especially on a 60ft. diamond. All the PU has to do is go to the working area (somehere around pitcher's mound) and the runner would be right there.

On a 60ft. diamond, the Field umpires are stationed in the outfield to begin with so perhaps, the PU should watch the touching of the bases. IMO, it's not that difficult. It's very difficult to make call from behind the action as opposed to in front of the action, so perhaps mechanics on a 60ft. diamond should change.

Any thoughts?

Pete Booth

[DrC.]

Some other thoughts....

Did anyone else wish Harold Reynolds would pull a "Waterboy" Dan Fouts and say: "SHUT UP BRENT!!!" He was obnoxious. I'm originally from the Bronx, But who made the team from the Bronx, NY the team to beat. They didn't have that pitcher (Almonte) going for them. I'm gald that mother stood up for her team. She was right. Then Harold Reynolds tells us how he thinks the Bronx could lose because the FL kids can hit and Brent then says, do you really think the FL kids can win.. Give me a break.

As for the missed tag of the base. Yes I know he missed it but think about, Is that the reason he was safe at third. No, he made it there easily. The base while missed did not impact the play. If it was a close play, then I word see them harping on it....

Then Brent kept harping on the wide strike zone. Did Brent watch any of the games the previous week. Harold Reynolds must have said a dozen times that if the zone wasn't widen, it could make for a longer game. While I agree with that at your hometown LL game, I don't necessarily agree with that at that level. But there was Brent again trying to start something.

Then there was the reporter who kept baiting the CA coach after the game to go after the umpire. I give that coach a LOT OF CREDIT for not taking the bait and remaining as calm as he did. I'm not so sure I would have. I mean the reporters do realize nobody goes into a game wanting to lose. No matter how pure the game is, you play to win (as proven by that coach who still had 2 or 3 players to get in the 6th inning and lucked out by his team coming back and was able to get them in as defensive replacements later on)

I thought Harold and Orel was outstanding....

ABC/ESPN talks out of one side of the mouth to tell you how pure the LL game is, but out of the other side comes the Big corporate machine trying to promote controversy.

One last thought/question, does LL have a no HEAD first slide rule to a base, Only back to a base? If so, wasn't the last play of Sundays Championship a head first slide into home ???

OK, I'm done....

[Phil Vivenzio]

DRC:
Well thought out answer. I thought that all the teams and there coaching staff displayed true sportsmanship throughout the LLWS. I was really impressed with there kids and program. I was truly embarrassed at the way ESPN and ABC tried to create controversy. I also, questioned the head first slide into home. I thought that the runner should have been called out.

Regards
Phil Vivenzio