Charge

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Hogwash = puffy? lol In NE Illinois, I guess it is.

Well no one uses Hogwash where I am from. They use stronger language. Then again, I honestly could give a damn what you think on this and many plays.

Call your game and I will call mine.

Peace

[Raymond]

If that was me in the Lead I probably would have called a Block. Then I would have seen the tape and I say I got the play wrong.

Of course, I'm what's wrong with basketball officiating in this nation.

[DLH17]

Officiate the defense...very very close, but looks like a block to me. Defender doesn't establish LGP before the shooter jumps. Add a little bit of shoulder nudge by the defender and that seals it for me. Then again, I had the benefit of watching it 6 times before making 'my call'.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DLH17

Officiate the defense...very very close, but looks like a block to me. Defender doesn't establish LGP before the shooter jumps. Add a little bit of shoulder nudge by the defender and that seals it for me. Then again, I had the benefit of watching it 6 times before making 'my call'.

That is why I would likely no call this. The defender did not keep the dunker from completing the dunk. So no advantage. Rule 4-27 always comes to mind on these kinds of plays.

Peace

[DLH17]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is why I would likely no call this. The defender did not keep the dunker from completing the dunk. So no advantage. Rule 4-27 always comes to mind on these kinds of plays.

Peace

Good thought.....thanks for the reference.

[BillyMac]

The infamous blue font, and a "NE Illinois" reference, in the same thread. We are really getting to be wild and crazy Forum members.

[just another ref]

If the defender is late getting there, and I think he is, I agree with the no call. Hasn't the poor kid suffered enough?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The contact or the action that put the player on the floor mostly took place after the ball was through the hoop.

I'm confused about this play, and I'm at work and don't have my books. In the case of a dunker, is the ball dead when it passes through the hoop, or does the ball remain live until the airborne shooter returns to the floor?

[icallfouls]

I talked to Joey Crawford and he emphatically signaled "BLOCK"

insert joey's excessive celebration video

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm confused about this play, and I'm at work and don't have my books. In the case of a dunker, is the ball dead when it passes through the hoop, or does the ball remain live until the airborne shooter returns to the floor?

It is dead, but for the purpose of a personal foul, by or against an airborne shooter, it doesn't matter.

[deecee]

[DLH17]

^^ All sorts of awesomeness wrapped up that clip right there, the least of which is the look of disbelief on the Black Python's (or whatever his nickname is) face.

[Scuba_ref]

Assuming secondary defender, the lead (who you wouldn't know is even alive) is straightlined and only comes to life to gather the ball after it bounces past him.

Who cares about the players?...gotta get that ball!!

Even in college with the RA this could have been called a charge for leading with the knee.

Fouls and Penalties. 10-1.12.

A secondary defender as defined in Rule 4-61
cannot establish initial legal guarding position in the restricted area for the purpose
of drawing a player control foul/charge when defending a player who is in control
of the ball (i.e., dribbling or shooting) or who has released the ball for a pass or try.
When illegal contact occurs within this Restricted Area, such contact shall be called
a blocking foul, unless the contact is a flagrant foul.
a. When illegal contact occurs by the offensive player leading with a foot or
unnatural, extended knee, or warding off with the arm, such contact shall

be called a player-control foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm confused about this play, and I'm at work and don't have my books. In the case of a dunker, is the ball dead when it passes through the hoop, or does the ball remain live until the airborne shooter returns to the floor?

I honestly do not care about the ball being dead or that aspect of the play from my point of view. The play by all accounts is over if you feel the defender was not in a LGP and the action did not prevent the dunker from landing properly or be under control and certainly did not prevent the dunk. For me this is simply an issue of advantage, disadvantage after you have determined the actions by the defender were legal or not as it relates to taking a charge. And this play is very, very close and not a slam dunk (pun intended) either way. And I call more charges personally than I bet most people here call them. I did see an angle today on ESPN from a half-court that did not help in determining for me if the defender slid over while the player went airborne. If you deem the defender was in a LGP, I am not even convinced I would call a foul that way either as the defender was not really displaces during the actual action but after the dunk as he has someone under him.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref

Assuming secondary defender, the lead (who you wouldn't know is even alive) is straightlined and only comes to life to gather the ball after it bounces past him.

Who cares about the players?...gotta get that ball!!

Even in college with the RA this could have been called a charge for leading with the knee.

Fouls and Penalties. 10-1.12.

A secondary defender as defined in Rule 4-61
cannot establish initial legal guarding position in the restricted area for the purpose
of drawing a player control foul/charge when defending a player who is in control
of the ball (i.e., dribbling or shooting) or who has released the ball for a pass or try.
When illegal contact occurs within this Restricted Area, such contact shall be called
a blocking foul, unless the contact is a flagrant foul.
a. When illegal contact occurs by the offensive player leading with a foot or
unnatural, extended knee, or warding off with the arm, such contact shall

be called a player-control foul.

I am going to disagree with that last point, the player was dunking. He was not leading with anything and if this was an NCAA game, this is if anything a block because of the RA rules. He jumps over the guy, not leading with his leg or anything. The guy is in a place he is not supposed to be in those rules and why they came up with the RA in the first place, to prevent players from standing under the basket just to cause contact. And why I would be OK with a change in the NF rule for that very reason. The problem is those plays are so rare at the high school level it would be hard to justify a change.

Peace