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-   -   Hadn't Seen this Before (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/93362-hadnt-seen-before.html)

JugglingReferee Sun Dec 30, 2012 01:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekent (Post 869015)
I know the definition of the time-out area, so I don't need that posted, but I saw something odd during a BV tourney championship tonight and am curious about opinions.

1. 60-sec timeout, A is still in huddle standing on floor at first horn, B breaks huddle at first and B players come lean in A's huddle listening to coach. A coach notices as he breaks huddle and goes ballistic but doesn't get whacked.

2. A1 fouls out, A coach is on the clock to replace and calls team over for huddle on court, once again several B players come up behind A players and stick their ears in to listen. Coach goes crazy and gets whacked this time.

In both cases, do you have anything?
  1. I'm seriously considering nothing. Possible whack to Team A coach; will try to calm him down.
  2. Nothing to Team B. Whack to Team A coach.

I can see allowing B players to locate themselves wherever they wish. It's the leaning in that I have an issue with. It's contradictory to the betterment of the game, so if I disallow it, it's on that premise.

Adam Sun Dec 30, 2012 01:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 869056)
Now consider the fact that, in the OP, team B came out early but after the first horn. They're supposed to be breaking out of their huddle and getting prepared to play. Does this change any opinions (I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, just for discussion).
If the throw in is going to be by A's bench, I'm not telling them they have to move away after that first horn. If not, I will. Either way, coach doesn't have license to go ape sh1t.

just another ref Sun Dec 30, 2012 01:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 869056)
Now consider the fact that, in the OP, team B came out early but after the first horn. They're supposed to be breaking out of their huddle and getting prepared to play. Does this change any opinions (I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, just for discussion).
I think this strengthens the position stated above. There is nothing going on in the opponents huddle which is a part of their preparation.

"Get away from there guys. Mind your own business."

Rich Sun Dec 30, 2012 01:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 869056)
Now consider the fact that, in the OP, team B came out early but after the first horn. They're supposed to be breaking out of their huddle and getting prepared to play. Does this change any opinions (I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, just for discussion).
There's nothing that requires them to break at the first horn. Absolutely nothing.

Camron Rust Sun Dec 30, 2012 01:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 869063)
There's nothing that requires them to break at the first horn. Absolutely nothing.
But they are to be ready to play by the 2nd horn....which allows them to be anywhere on the court at that time. So, at what time can they be anywhere?

Adam Sun Dec 30, 2012 01:56pm
Nothing in the rules prevents B from standing near A's huddle once B has released their players from the timeout huddle.

I'm still moving them away before the first horn, but I will step in if I see them leaning in. That' just unsporting. As for the coach from A going stupid, that's getting shut down quick.

Rich Sun Dec 30, 2012 02:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 869074)
Nothing in the rules prevents B from standing near A's huddle once B has released their players from the timeout huddle.

I'm still moving them away before the first horn, but I will step in if I see them leaning in. That' just unsporting. As for the coach from A going stupid, that's getting shut down quick.
I'd get them out of there, regardless. I don't need a special rule to prevent stupidity on the court. I'll give them plenty of time to get the position they want before the ball's put in play.

just another ref Sun Dec 30, 2012 02:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich (Post 869077)
i don't need a special rule to prevent stupidity on the court.

+1

BktBallRef Sun Dec 30, 2012 04:42pm
C'mon guys!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 869077)
I'd get them out of there, regardless. I don't need a special rule to prevent stupidity on the court. I'll give them plenty of time to get the position they want before the ball's put in play.


Exactly.

A single 60-second time-out charged to a team shall not exceed one minute and shall be conducted within the confines of the time-out area.

That tells me a team should be within their own time-out area and not in the other team's area. When Team B players come into Team A's area and "lean" into their conference, that's the type of thing that starts fights. Unsporting acts are not limited to those specifically identified in the rule book. Yeah, I'm whacking that.

The game has got to be managed better than allowing this type of thing go on.

bob jenkins Sun Dec 30, 2012 07:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 869106)
Yeah, I'm whacking that
I'd at least address it, if not whack it the first time it happened, especially if it's more than one player. If it's just the inbounder and he;s just moving to / toward the spot, maybe there's more leeway.

rekent Sun Dec 30, 2012 09:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 869141)
I'd at least address it, if not whack it the first time it happened, especially if it's more than one player. If it's just the inbounder and he;s just moving to / toward the spot, maybe there's more leeway.
Inbound was on same end as team A, baseline opposite benches. Was 3 of the 5 members of B.

BktBallRef Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekent (Post 869170)
Inbound was on same end as team A, baseline opposite benches. Was 3 of the 5 members of B.
Yep, no call for that whatsoever. Whack.

rekent Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 869187)
Yep, no call for that whatsoever. Whack.
I was just in the crowd, but that's what I was thinking for the one during the timeout since it was blatantly unsportsmanlike and potentially inciting. For the one during the sub, coach is just out of luck.

Adam Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rekent (Post 869188)
I was just in the crowd, but that's what I was thinking for the one during the timeout since it was blatantly unsportsmanlike and potentially inciting. For the one during the sub, coach is just out of luck.
The second doesn't happen if the first ends with free throws.

rekent Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 869189)
The second doesn't happen if the first ends with free throws.
True, I just meant judging the potential unsportsmanlike-ness of each occurrence independently. But, free throws or not, I have no problem with the second one since the coach is using his sub time as a de-facto time-out.


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