Another T or no T

[egj13]

T for sure...and I don't hand them out easy

Working a JVB game last year with a 1st year official (only his 5th game). Game was going well, kid was blowing the whistle which I feel is important. We are standing at the division line after the end of the 3rd discussing some things and the coach asks my partner "are you a 1st year official?"...kid says "yes I am"...coach says "it shows". I gave the kid a few seconds to whack the coach himself but when he didn't I did for him. Coach threw his hands up "I wasn't talking to you"...whack again...see ya!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by egj13

I don't hand them out easy

. Coach threw his hands up "I wasn't talking to you"...whack again...see ya!

I see these two sentences as contradictory. jmo

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by egj13

T for sure...and I don't hand them out easy

Working a JVB game last year with a 1st year official (only his 5th game). Game was going well, kid was blowing the whistle which I feel is important. We are standing at the division line after the end of the 3rd discussing some things and the coach asks my partner "are you a 1st year official?"...kid says "yes I am"...coach says "it shows". I gave the kid a few seconds to whack the coach himself but when he didn't I did for him. Coach threw his hands up "I wasn't talking to you"...whack again...see ya!

Why were you so close to the bench area?

[SNIPERBBB]

T here.

One of the reasons that Varsity coaches should never, ever be around the bench area during the JV games...if they get tossed they are done for the day+2 games+$100 fine and take a class.

Around here, the V coaches have an(some more than others depending on the AD/conference if the conference has an assignor) influence in who they get for games, in some cases even at away games, so that question is a catch 22 for younger officials.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why were you so close to the bench area?

We weren't that close...buzzer sounds for end of the period, I meet my partner at the division line near the center circle coach steps out in front of the table and starts in. Whack, Whack gone.

Coach is well known in this area for being an ***...he was looking to get tossed because he was tired of coaching. If I hadn't whacked him on the second comment he would have kept going till one of us tossed him. One and only basketball coach I have ever tossed...can't say the same on the diamond though.

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by egj13

T for sure...and I don't hand them out easy

Working a JVB game last year with a 1st year official (only his 5th game). Game was going well, kid was blowing the whistle which I feel is important. We are standing at the division line after the end of the 3rd discussing some things and the coach asks my partner "are you a 1st year official?"...kid says "yes I am"...coach says "it shows". I gave the kid a few seconds to whack the coach himself but when he didn't I did for him. Coach threw his hands up "I wasn't talking to you"...whack again...see ya!

I worked with an official who would always tell a coach (after they tell him "I was not talking to you") 'If I can hear you, you are talking to me'.

[Sharpshooternes]

Do you guys eject immediately if a coach starts swearing at us as a flagrant technical? Or a T and if he continues a second T?
Here is the reason I ask. Men's sophomore game a couple of days ago. Had a brand new partner. We did not have very consistent block charge calls and partner appeared timid to coaches and players. It was a rough game all around. Between 3rd and fourth quarter assistant coach (my first mistake) approaches and says, "Can I talk to you?" I said, You've got ten seconds" (I am working on being better at dealing with coaches and I gave him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he might have a question.) He then proceeds to tear into us saying, "you guys suck, this is the sh!#$yest job and worse calls" Blah blah maybe 3-5 swear words in his 5 seconds before I walked away. (second mistake).

If I could go back and do it again, I would have nipped the AC problem in the bud early and only dealt with HC. Once the AC started with the swearing at us I would have at least T'd him up. And probably just thrown him out right then. I have never ejected anyone before so was a bit timid about doing it. Also, this team has two of our well respected varsity officials' sons on it and I honestly just didn't want to get a bad reputation so early in my career. I would love to hear your constructive thoughts and comments on how to better handle this situation in the future. Thanks

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Do you guys eject immediately if a coach starts swearing at us as a flagrant technical? Or a T and if he continues a second T?

Not necessarily. It depends why and how loud, how visible, and what specifically is said/done.

I had one two weeks ago where the coach of the team with a big lead wasn't happy with the consistency of calls being made. A foul or two were called against his team that were similar to plays passed on for the other team....a team which had 3 points at halftime. He wasn't very loud about anything, didn't say any magic words, didn't say anything about me or my partner, and wasn't demonstrative....just a young coach that was not used to being in that situation. About midway through the fourth, I was by him and suggested that it might be a good game to just sit back and enjoy the comfortable win. He expressed his displeasure with similar plays being called differently with a "that's bull****" mixed in...but only such that I could hear it. I thought about a T, looked at him and said "Coach, we don't need that". He turned around, sat down, and didn't say boo the rest of the game.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

He then proceeds to tear into us saying, "you guys suck, this is the sh!#$yest job and worse calls" Blah blah maybe 3-5 swear words in his 5 seconds before I walked away. (second mistake).

T....about the time he would have said the word "this".....and then walk away.

If he's still going at it after a few steps, probably time for the 2nd.

There is a line a lot of people draw between a comment that is phrased as "You...." vs. "That is....". The personal "You" remarks get the T's where the "That is" remarks might get a pass unless there are other elements to the situation.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

If I could go back and do it again, I would have nipped the AC problem in the bud early and only dealt with HC.

I have no problem talking to ACs if they are appropriate and it is at an appropriate time...such as a timeout or intermission and I am already near their huddle but it is very limited.

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Once the AC started with the swearing at us I would have at least T'd him up. And probably just thrown him out right then. I have never ejected anyone before so was a bit timid about doing it. Also, this team has two of our well respected varsity officials' sons on it and I honestly just didn't want to get a bad reputation so early in my career. I would love to hear your constructive thoughts and comments on how to better handle this situation in the future. Thanks

Sounds like you know what to do the next time. If they are audibly swearing like that and you haven't just completely screwed up the game, you look bad by not penalizing it. Situations like that happen and you have to deal with them. You just don't want to be calling a lot more T's than anyone else...that is what will hurt you....but so will not calling them when deserved.

[Tio]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Do you guys eject immediately if a coach starts swearing at us as a flagrant technical? Or a T and if he continues a second T?
Here is the reason I ask. Men's sophomore game a couple of days ago. Had a brand new partner. We did not have very consistent block charge calls and partner appeared timid to coaches and players. It was a rough game all around. Between 3rd and fourth quarter assistant coach (my first mistake) approaches and says, "Can I talk to you?" I said, You've got ten seconds" (I am working on being better at dealing with coaches and I gave him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he might have a question.) He then proceeds to tear into us saying, "you guys suck, this is the sh!#$yest job and worse calls" Blah blah maybe 3-5 swear words in his 5 seconds before I walked away. (second mistake).

If I could go back and do it again, I would have nipped the AC problem in the bud early and only dealt with HC. Once the AC started with the swearing at us I would have at least T'd him up. And probably just thrown him out right then. I have never ejected anyone before so was a bit timid about doing it. Also, this team has two of our well respected varsity officials' sons on it and I honestly just didn't want to get a bad reputation so early in my career. I would love to hear your constructive thoughts and comments on how to better handle this situation in the future. Thanks

You are overthinking the situation. If an Asst. Coach, head coach, player gives that kind of feedback to you. A tech. will come quickly...if it is me, I whack him and start walking away. That way, he will have to come onto the court where he will have to follow you. And I disagree that you felt walking away was wrong... there is no need for you to stay there and take that crap.

You can't be afraid to eject someone. You have to trust your skillset and when someone crosses the line, assess the appropriate punishment. If an ejection is warranted, you need to take care of business. Don't care about what kind of reputation you have. If you are fair, work hard, are approachable and are a good partner on/off the court, to the people who matter they will formulate a solid opinion of you. Learn from this situation... all of us have been there.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Tio

You are overthinking the situation. If an Asst. Coach, head coach, player gives that kind of feedback to you. A tech. will come quickly...if it is me, I whack him and start walking away. That way, he will have to come onto the court where he will have to follow you. And I disagree that you felt walking away was wrong... there is no need for you to stay there and take that crap.

I didn't feel bad about walking away. I felt bad I walked a way with out issuing at least a technical.

I lik ethe issue a tech and walk away and let them basically prove they want to get tossed.

You can't be afraid to eject someone. You have to trust your skillset and when someone crosses the line, assess the appropriate punishment. If an ejection is warranted, you need to take care of business. Don't care about what kind of reputation you have. If you are fair, work hard, are approachable and are a good partner on/off the court, to the people who matter they will formulate a solid opinion of you. Learn from this situation... all of us have been there.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for this bit of advice. It is all new territory for me from an ejection/report standpoint. I guess I need to spend some more time talking with some of the more veteran officials about this scenario. After mulling it over a bit more and getting a bit of feedback, I will be more comfortable next time.

[amusedofficial]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Also, this team has two of our well respected varsity officials' sons on it and I honestly just didn't want to get a bad reputation so early in my career.

If they are, in fact, respected varsity officials (and not just members of the ruling junta buddy club), I suggest that your reputation would have grown, and not been hindered, by taking care of bizness.

Never, ever, base a decision on who someone is; that's a slippery slope on which we ought not to tread.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Do you guys eject immediately if a coach starts swearing at us as a flagrant technical? Or a T and if he continues a second T?
Here is the reason I ask. Men's sophomore game a couple of days ago. Had a brand new partner. We did not have very consistent block charge calls and partner appeared timid to coaches and players. It was a rough game all around. Between 3rd and fourth quarter assistant coach (my first mistake) approaches and says, "Can I talk to you?" I said, You've got ten seconds" (I am working on being better at dealing with coaches and I gave him the benefit of the doubt that perhaps he might have a question.) He then proceeds to tear into us saying, "you guys suck, this is the sh!#$yest job and worse calls" Blah blah maybe 3-5 swear words in his 5 seconds before I walked away. (second mistake).

If I could go back and do it again, I would have nipped the AC problem in the bud early and only dealt with HC. Once the AC started with the swearing at us I would have at least T'd him up. And probably just thrown him out right then. I have never ejected anyone before so was a bit timid about doing it. Also, this team has two of our well respected varsity officials' sons on it and I honestly just didn't want to get a bad reputation so early in my career. I would love to hear your constructive thoughts and comments on how to better handle this situation in the future. Thanks

So...you basically went through what all of us have gone through at some point. As a mentor of mine says, take these situations and put them in your mental filing cabinet. When it happens again you already have that experience to draw on. The good thing is at least you know where you went wrong.

I'm with CR: he doesn't get the word "this" out of his mouth before the T comes up. And don't ever worry about who is related to someone on a team You have to run your game. Your reputation will actually be worse if you don't bang an AC in that spot. The only bothersome thing about ejecting people is the paperwork