time keeeping

[furlu55]

if the scorekeeper fails to start the clock on an inbound and a goal is scored, what action is taken??? is the goal scored or not counted????

scenario 2....if there is 1 second on the clock and the time keeper starts the clock prematurely and the buzzer sounds expiring time but a goal is scored after, and the official feels the basket took less than the second to score, what action are taken....scenario 3....if the horn sounds prematurely and there is a foul called immediatly after the inbound within the hypothetical 1 second....the official is all the above has definitive judgement that all action took place under the 1 second by his internal clock.

[Camron Rust]

#1...goal counts. The officials can use any on-court counts they may have to adjust the time...no guessing. If an official got to 7 in the backcourt and got to 4 on a 5 second count in the frontcourt and had some other amount of undetermined time, 11 seconds can be taken off the clock.

#2...if the official knew the clock started early and counted in their head, they could count the basket if it was released before they got to 0:00. That said, when they see it start early, they should kill it right then and fix it (presumably, it is during a throwin so play would typically resume from that same throwin).

#3...same as #2, the official can, with any information they have, make adjustments to the clock. That horn was effectively an inadvertent horn.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

#1...goal counts. The officials can use any on-court counts they may have to adjust the time...no guessing. If an official got to 7 in the backcourt and got to 4 on a 5 second count in the frontcourt and had some other amount of undetermined time, 11 seconds can be taken off the clock.

#2...if the official knew the clock started early and counted in their head, they could count the basket if it was released before they got to 0:00. That said, when they see it start early, they should kill it right then and fix it (presumably, it is during a throwin so play would typically resume from that same throwin).

#3...same as #2, the official can, with any information they have, make adjustments to the clock. That horn was effectively an inadvertent horn.

A little nit-picky by me, but those phrases don't mesh. The official shouldn't try to go with a non-visible count or use "any" info, but do as you wrote in #1 and use only definite knowledge.

Now I'm also going to disagree with your conclusions for #2 and #3. This is the period-ending horn which will cause the players to stop and make the ball dead unless released on a try for goal prior to it sounding. This is not the same as the timer hitting the horn for subs or to get the officials attention. Therefore, the goal cannot count. The timing mistake may be corrected and the game continued from the POI. For #3 the foul would be ignored unless intentional or flagrant and play would again revert to the POI following the timing correction.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The official shouldn't try to go with a non-visible count.

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

I agree, but if I'm killing the play with time on the clock, I'm going to have a visible count.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

Don't end up in hot water. Do something which shows up on video.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Don't end up in hot water. Do something which shows up on video.

I disagree. If we only made decisions because video would back us up, we'd avoid making a lot of decisions. Sometimes, you just have to make a tough decision.

If you have a count, visible or not, and you don't use it, you're not following the rules. It doesn't say definite visible knowledge, just definite knowledge.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Disagree. If an official has definite knowledge, even if it involves a nonvisible count, like for a possible three second violation, then the official should be allowed to use it.

Also, I don't believe that this is what 5-10-2 is referring to with the words official's count. If you look at 2-7-9 you won't find the 3-second count listed.