Coach's leash

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Did your partner seem to think that this was a bad thing or not necessarily so?
Around here, we have had numerous conversation about demeanor on the court. It is, like most things, a case of you can't win.

We have one guy who frowns all the time. People don't like that.

"He's mad at us."

We have another guy who smiles all the time. People don't like that.

"He's laughing at us."

I, personally, find the smile to be much worse, particularly when directed at the coach on the short end of the last call, even though in this case I know that it is not done with evil intent.

So, having studied all this at length, in a serious game situation I try to remain expressionless on the court. But people don't like that either.

"Look at him, he doesn't even care."

In this case, it was a negative. He had just called a T on their coach for getting a bit too expressive while demanding a traveling call with less than a minute and his team down by a handful. Mine came shortly after that, when his player essentially did the same thing while yelling me instead of playing defense on a transition play. B2 then decided to roll the ball away. Rather than let my partner deal with that particular aspect, I delayed the reporting of the T to tell him it was in his best interest to retrieve the ball.

Tourney director came up afterwards and informed us that he loved the way we handled the end of that game, including the Ts and making the kid get the ball. But I think, in the end, my Sergeant face could have inflamed things a bit further. I need to work on keeping my face calm there.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tomegun

And this is why I mention it. I see it mentioned like it is really a tool officials should use...and after the stop sign everything is going to change. Yeah right. If you want to push someone over the edge, give them a stop sign.

Now I could use an evil eye roll.

I do have one particular situation where I put up the stop sign. It's when my partner makes a call from the Lead or from the C opposite the table and the coach gets up clearly in reaction to the call. I do it mainly so the coach doesn't distract from my partner reporting the foul. Of course, I'm not using the classic 'Crossing Guard" stop sign stance , more of pushing my hand(s) towards the ground as in "slow down, Coach"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

And this is why I mention it. I see it mentioned like it is really a tool officials should use...and after the stop sign everything is going to change. Yeah right. If you want to push someone over the edge, give them a stop sign.

Now I could use an evil eye roll.

I totally agree. I know the "stop sign" is something I almost never use an only used because for some reason some evaluators or assignors think it is a good idea, but almost all the time did not stop anything. It usually caused more issues.

Peace

[keith_15]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I totally agree. I know the "stop sign" is something I almost never use an only used because for some reason some evaluators or assignors think it is a good idea, but almost all the time did not stop anything. It usually caused more issues.

I used to be a a big stop sign guy, because evaluators wanted to see it. I grew out of it, except for situations that have already been brought up. I found there are other ways to acknowledge a coach. Plus, in a camp once, the lead evaluator says to me while watching film, "Man, you look like one of the Supremes! How many f'in' Stop Signs you gonna give that cat?" Of course 30 seconds later I stuck the coach on the film. The evaluator yells out, "'Bout g'damn time!"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by keith_15

I used to be a a big stop sign guy, because evaluators wanted to see it. I grew out of it, except for situations that have already been brought up. I found there are other ways to acknowledge a coach. Plus, in a camp once, the lead evaluator says to me while watching film, "Man, you look like one of the Supremes! How many f'in' Stop Signs you gonna give that cat?" Of course 30 seconds later I stuck the coach on the film. The evaluator yells out, "'Bout g'damn time!"

That is the problem. The evaluators are looking for these displays to show that you did something or said something, rather than just looking at the official's track record to the coach's track record, we have to use these visual accounts that do nothing and only make the coach (who does not care what an official evaluator thinks) to get them upset because you embarrassed them.

Peace

[OKREF]

Stop sign doesn't work if you don't follow up with a T. No credibility and coach then knows the stop sign doesn't mean anything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Stop sign doesn't work if you don't follow up with a T. No credibility and coach then knows the stop sign doesn't mean anything.

Isn't the stop sign supposed to work because you say "stop" right?

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Isn't the stop sign supposed to work because you say "stop" right?

Peace

Correct. But if the coach continues after the stop sign and you let it go. The stop sign doesn't mean anything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Correct. But if the coach continues after the stop sign and you let it go. The stop sign doesn't mean anything.

Not disputing that fact, but it does not mean anything if a coach continues and does not get the message. Many of have been sold that it stops things and that is the point of the opposition that Tommy and myself are raising.

You might as well say, "Sit down and shut up" when using that signal IMHO. And we all know how well that statement works out right?

Peace

[Rich]

There will always be a group of officials who try to avoid calling a technical foul at all costs. It's easier on them, they figure. They won't have to justify it to an assignor or state office. Just 1:15 or so and they can be on their way with a check in their pockets.

I have no time for those people. I had a coach tell us that we cost him a game they were losing by 11 points with 1:30 left a few weeks ago. I could've ignored him. I didn't - I issued a technical foul -- he had tried to bait me by saying words like "terrible" and "horrible" as I went past the previous few possessions. The coach immediately sat down and didn't say another word.

Don't be the partner I have to clean up after. Don't be the official that the coach uses as an excuse when I don't let him get away with nonsense he got away with before.

[JRutledge]

I called a technical foul last night, I did not need a sign to keep it from happening. The issue is not being afraid of calling a technical, the issue is does the sign that everyone loves to advocate really accomplish the goal? I have stopped a many of Ts being called just by going to a coach quietly. When I give the "stop sign" a T is fast approaching or being accused of making the issue personal. This is not about fear of anything it is does it help the game as it is widely stated?

I am just saying that is clearly up for debate.

Peace

[Adam]

Exactly, Jeff. I have a lot more success with words than gestures.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I called a technical foul last night, I did not need a sign to keep it from happening. The issue is not being afraid of calling a technical, the issue is does the sign that everyone loves to advocate really accomplish the goal? I have stopped a many of Ts being called just by going to a coach quietly. When I give the "stop sign" a T is fast approaching or being accused of making the issue personal. This is not about fear of anything it is does it help the game as it is widely stated?

I am just saying that is clearly up for debate.

Peace

I don't always use a stop sign. I use it when I need to. Had a coach Monday night say he got a T in a tournament, and never got a stop sign. He said that if he had gotten one, he would have not said another word. Also said the opposing coach got 2 stops from the same official, and he never got a T.

I just know with me, if I give a coach the stop sign, the next time he offers his opinion on a call, I am giving him a T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by keith_15

Another point for the stop sign!

Not really.

[MD Longhorn]

Stop sign is just the chicken-S way of trying to get the coach to stop behaving badly without having the courage to give the T he earned. There's no such thing as a half-technical. They earn it, have the balls to announce it.