The Official Forum - Approval of Final Score

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But The Shower Is Running ...

Several years ago we had two officials (in another little corner of Connecticut, not mine) come back out of the locker room to handle a situation like this. Their career headed south after that fateful decision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 865043)

the scoreboard is just a pretty bunch of lights.

Post o' the week.

As an official, there's no way we continue play, though. The officials were told the book matched what they saw in lights, which was a win. I have no idea if someone altered that after I left the court. Let the state sort it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey (Post 865010)

What do you do as officials? What does the cooach do?

Well if you are not talking about right after the game has ended (which was not clear to me), then there is nothing you can do. Game over. Not your problem. I also do not care what a coach can or cannot do, I do not coach. My job is done and I am going home. Again this is why both scorers sit next to each other so that this can be prevented instantly. And if not then someone on the bench keeping track should know all kinds of things as it relates to score and fouls so something is not done incorrectly. I put this on the teams to let that happen.

Peace

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 865043)

Coming from you, this surprises me. From this forum, I know you to be a good official. You know the scoreboard is just a pretty bunch of lights. You (I would have assumed) should also know that we verify the veracity of the BOOK (after all... it's the book that is your official record of all that happened ... they don't ship the scoreboard off somewhere).

It is, but when you look over at the table before you leave the floor, you are asking the scorer if they differ from what is on the board. When they do not indicated otherwise, you have verified a score that is equivalent to the board. You don't go over and count of the score in the book or even look at the #'s to see what they are. The scorer has their job and if they indicate that the score is not tied and their is no reason to disbelieve them, then the score is not tied. If the book later says otherwise, then that is irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865087)

I wonder if that's a local thing then. I'm not checking to see if the book matches the scoreboard (heck, I've seen times when home loses that they shut the thing off almost immediately... not often, but I've seen it) - I'm looking to see that the books match. And yes, I'm looking at numbers (not the individual counts, of course ... but the last circled number for each team).

If it's a close game, I and my partner, have already gotten with the table to make sure everything is correct. If they say it is, at the end of the game we are getting off the floor. Once you leave the visual confines of the floor, it is over.

My opinion on this is that you've approved the official score, which is recorded in the official scorebook. That means you allowed the game to end in a tie. (I don't mean that to be accusatory; it's just the fact. Maybe the scorers screwed you or whatever.) The state association will now decide how/if to break the tie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 865130)

That is correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865087)

Wow.

Rule reference please?

Last I heard, the home book was the OFFICIAL score.

Let's Be Specific ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 865202)

The home book was the OFFICIAL score.

More specifically, the running score in the home scorebook is the official score.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 865202)

Wow.

Rule reference please?

Last I heard, the home book was the OFFICIAL score.

ART. 4 . . . The jurisdiction of the officials is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Once you're out the door, the game is over.

But what exactly have you approved when you left the floor? What you BELIEVED the score to be. You are approving one team as having won the game. Right or wrong, that is what was done and that is what the rule above says is final. What they tell you the book says or should have said after you're gone is not relevant.

I don't know anyone that goes over to the book after the horn...we certainly check at a timeout/break before the game ends and that should generally take care of it. We make eye contact with the scorer on the way out and if there is something different that they have, they must get your attention before you clear the gym.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865214)

ART. 4 . . . The jurisdiction of the officials is terminated and the final score has been approved when all officials leave the visual confines of the playing area.

Once you're out the door, the game is over.

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865214)

But what exactly have you approved when you left the floor?

Exactly what that text says--"the final score." Now if you wish to know what is the final score, then you must consult the rules book.

2-11-4

The scorer shall:

. . .

Record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed, and
keep a running summary of the points scored.

2-11-11 . . .

Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul,

each charged time-out, and end of each quarter and extra period, notifying the
referee at once of any discrepancy. If the mistake cannot be found, the referee shall
accept the record of the official scorebook, unless he/she has knowledge which
permits him/her to decide otherwise. If the discrepancy is in the score and the
mistake is not resolved, the referee shall accept the progressive team totals of the
official scorebook. A bookkeeping mistake may be corrected at any time until the
referee approves the final score. The scorebook of the home team shall be the
official book, unless the referee rules otherwise. The official scorebook shall

remain at the scorer’s table throughout the game, including all intermissions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865214)

What you BELIEVED the score to be.

From the above quoted rules, it is clear that the score is NOT what is on the board or what anyone believes the score to be, but rather is what is written in the progressive team totals of the official (home) scorebook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865214)

You are approving one team as having won the game. Right or wrong, that is what was done and that is what the rule above says is final.

That's not what the rule says. Don't twist the words. The rule which you quoted simply tells us when the game is officially over. It could mistakenly be declared over, which is the case when the score is tied. The rule which says which team has won the game is 5-3, and it states that the winning team is the one which has accumulated the greater number of
points when the game ends. Points aren't accumulated by being posted on the scoreboard. They are what is written/marked in the official scorebook. So if neither team has a greater number of points therein when the game ends, then we can't just declare a winner. That isn't one of the assigned duties of the referee in rule 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865214)

What they tell you the book says or should have said after you're gone is not relevant.

Not only is it relevant, but it is the determining factor BY RULE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 865214)

I don't know anyone that goes over to the book after the horn...we certainly check at a timeout/break before the game ends and that should generally take care of it. We make eye contact with the scorer on the way out and if there is something different that they have, they must get your attention before you clear the gym.

That's the same process used in my area. So now what do we do in the situation under discussion?

It seems to me that we have a premature ending of the game that would nicely fit under the following rule:

5-4-3 . . .

Whenever a game is interrupted because of events beyond the

control of the responsible administrative authorities, it shall be continued from
the point of interruption unless the teams agree to terminate the game with the
existing score, or there are conference, league or state association rules to cover

the situation.

This is a tough one. It should have brought to your attention prior to you leaving the visual confines of the court, once that happens the officials can't change anything. It seems that the state association will have to get involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 865219)

Yep.

Exactly what that text says--"the final score." Now if you wish to know what is the final score, then you must consult the rules book.

2-11-4

The scorer shall:

. . .

Record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed, and
keep a running summary of the points scored.

2-11-11 . . .

Compare records with the visiting scorer after each goal, each foul,

remain at the scorer’s table throughout the game, including all intermissions.

From the above quoted rules, it is clear that the score is NOT what is on the board or what anyone believes the score to be, but rather is what is written in the progressive team totals of the official (home) scorebook.

That's not what the rule says. Don't twist the words. The rule which you quoted simply tells us when the game is officially over. It could mistakenly be declared over, which is the case when the score is tied. The rule which says which team has won the game is 5-3, and it states that the winning team is the one which has accumulated the greater number of
points when the game ends. Points aren't accumulated by being posted on the scoreboard. They are what is written/marked in the official scorebook. So if neither team has a greater number of points therein when the game ends, then we can't just declare a winner. That isn't one of the assigned duties of the referee in rule 2.

Not only is it relevant, but it is the determining factor BY RULE.

That's the same process used in my area. So now what do we do in the situation under discussion?

It seems to me that we have a premature ending of the game that would nicely fit under the following rule:

5-4-3 . . .

Whenever a game is interrupted because of events beyond the

the situation.

All nice but the fundamental element is that the game is over. The state may certainly step in and declare something to be different but none of what you have said cancels the fact that the officials jurisdiction has ended.

As for your last citation, that is referring to power outages, fires, tornadoes, riots, and other kinds of external events that cause the game to be stopped. It isn't intended to be used to correct an error by the officials in declaring the wrong final score.