Say what?

blindzebra68 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 01:06pm

Ok...here's what happened. To start off with..BV ..3 man crew. I'm not knocking my fellow refs...BUT not as experienced (as you will see) as I would like for a hotly contested BV game. I will not bore you with every call and positioning issue. Here's the major one that put me over the top. Team B down 1 point. Gets rebound underneath team As basket. Immediately calls timeout with 2.5 seconds on clock 4 th Q. I was lead at the time. I relay info to the table and go back to baseline to administer the ball.(should have gotten together and talked about situation...but sadly we did not) Just getting ready to blow whistle to start inbounds. The trail blows his whistle..he's talking to Bs coach. Trail comes running up to me says "why are we not in bounding at half court" I was like what the hell are you talking about. This is not the NBA. He thought about it for a second, and said yeah your right. REALLY!! Went backed to his position. So, I in bounds the ball on baseline, they have a turnover. Time elapses. Game over right! Wrong! As I'm running off court. I see my other partner talking to Bs coach...she's screaming and yelling. He whistles me over! He's the ref, not me by the way. I go over, the coach says she asked the the trail where the ball was going to be inbounded , he said half court. So she set up a half court play on the inbounds. So shes screaming at me, it's our fault she lost the game in not so many nice words. I told here I was sorry..but she was given false information and she should have questioned the inbounds at the time. I quickly left. It was an interesting locker room afterwards!

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 01:23pm

What did your partner say in the locker room? Did he/she say anything about what communication was given? Better yet, did you discuss the spot amongst each other during the timeout? I do not see this as just your partner's fault if it was granted and never communicated to the crew.

Peace

Adam · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What did your partner say in the locker room? Did he/she say anything about what communication was given? Better yet, did you discuss the spot amongst each other during the timeout? I do not see this as just your partner's fault if it was granted and never communicated to the crew.

Peace

Honestly, I'd never even consider that my partner would give a coach such horribly inaccurate information, so I wouldn't even know to cut it off.

rekent · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 01:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam

honestly, i'd never even consider that my partner would give a coach such horribly inaccurate information, so i wouldn't even know to cut it off.

+1

Incredible that someone doing a BV game would even entertain the thought of half-court throw-in.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

Honestly, I'd never even consider that my partner would give a coach such horribly inaccurate information, so I wouldn't even know to cut it off.

I agree, but I still make that clear every single time there is a timeout and really make sure when I am the administering official. For one I would be standing in the spot or plane of the spot with the ball. And with 2.5 seconds we would be talking as well to make sure we know who has the last second shot and cover possible situations that need to be shared. And not everyone that works varsity is the best of the best, so I would not assume much of anything. That is also why I asked what did the partner say he/she told the coach. It is possible that they did not tell them the information and the coach assumed something (and they should know better too) rather than knowing the rule. I am just saying this is a perfect example of why you talk to each other so that if anyone is misinformed you can give them the proper information. Heck you can do this multiple times if multiple timeouts are called in the last minute or so.

And most of all, we need to grow some (whatever that might be). Who gives a damn what the coach is yelling about when you are for sure right and even if you are not right, who gives a damn what they think anyway?

Peace

Adam · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 01:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree, but I still make that clear every single time there is a timeout and really make sure when I am the administering official. For one I would be standing in the spot or plane of the spot with the ball. And with 2.5 seconds we would be talking as well to make sure we know who has the last second shot and cover possible situations that need to be shared. And not everyone that works varsity is the best of the best, so I would not assume much of anything. That is also why I asked what did the partner say he/she told the coach. It is possible that they did not tell them the information and the coach assumed something (and they should know better too) rather than knowing the rule. I am just saying this is a perfect example of why you talk to each other so that if anyone is misinformed you can give them the proper information. Heck you can do this multiple times if multiple timeouts are called in the last minute or so.

Peace

I agree, and this is something I'm trying to work on this year as well. I want to be more proactive with communicating throw-in spots after a timeout. Let my partner know before the TO is even reported. Stand at the spot with a neon sign if I have to.

jdmara · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 01:47pm

It is astonishing that things like this happen but they do. The solution to the problem in the future is to ALWAYS get together during the crucial time of the game and discuss it. I was working a game last week with two DI officials and although they knew exactly what was going to happen, we discussed the situation at every full timeout.

-Josh

BillyMac · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:37pm

Even with Connecticut being the last bastion of the two person game, we always have one of the two officials at the spot where the ball will be inbounded, with the ball in hand. The other official will be at the division line, on one, or the other, side of the jump ball circle. If for some reason we need to get together to discuss something, the ball is left at the spot of the throwin. If the coach wants to know where the ball will be inbounded, it will always be where the ball is, 100% of the time.

CMHCoachNRef · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:37pm

Very unfortunate situation. With 2.5 seconds left, the crew should have gotten together to make sure that all were on the same page for the final play. Perhaps worth a pre-game reminder that the official administering the throw-in will ALWAYS be at the throw in spot (or close to it, if the spot is near a team bench area).

While your partner was certainly gave incorrect information, this one is somewhat on the entire crew. The entire crew should know where the throw-in spot is (where the administering official is standing with the ball). The time for your partner to question the throw-in position should have been early in the time out when you were along the end line. Once again, had it been discussed in pre-game (or during your get together during the time out), the problem likely never would have presented itself as it did.

I, for one, will make sure we discuss this in pre-game tonight (even though I am working with my normal crew!). Just my humble opinion.

CMHCoachNRef · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I agree, but I still make that clear every single time there is a timeout and really make sure when I am the administering official. For one I would be standing in the spot or plane of the spot with the ball. And with 2.5 seconds we would be talking as well to make sure we know who has the last second shot and cover possible situations that need to be shared. And not everyone that works varsity is the best of the best, so I would not assume much of anything. That is also why I asked what did the partner say he/she told the coach. It is possible that they did not tell them the information and the coach assumed something (and they should know better too) rather than knowing the rule. I am just saying this is a perfect example of why you talk to each other so that if anyone is misinformed you can give them the proper information. Heck you can do this multiple times if multiple timeouts are called in the last minute or so.

And most of all, we need to grow some (whatever that might be). Who gives a damn what the coach is yelling about when you are for sure right and even if you are not right, who gives a damn what they think anyway?

Peace

Very good points!!!

Raymond · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:43pm

Honestly, I've never known an HS varsity official to use the phrase "inbound the ball" instead of "throw-in".

BZ68 "relays" the info to the table? I usually "report" time-outs, not relay info.

Coach asks "trail" instead of asking the "new lead"?

I'm doubting the veracity of portions of this accounting.

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even with Connecticut being the last bastion of the two person game, we always have one of the two officials at the spot where the ball will be inbounded, with the ball in hand. The other official will be at the division line, on one, or the other, side of the jump ball circle. If for some reason we need to get together to discuss something, the ball is left at the spot of the throwin. If the coach wants to know where the ball will be inbounded, it will always be where the ball is, 100% of the time.

I am not a fan of putting the ball down. There are too many people that can mess with the ball or trip over the ball like cheerleaders. I would rather hold onto the ball and tell the coach the spot. Because in your situation the ball can be moved by someone and then what? I would rather them hear it from us where the spot is if we have to leave the spot to talk near the end of the game. Otherwise I stand near the spot and will not stand near the benches either.

Peace

Raymond · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even with Connecticut being the last bastion of the two person game, we always have one of the two officials at the spot where the ball will be inbounded, with the ball in hand. The other official will be at the division line, on one, or the other, side of the jump ball circle. If for some reason we need to get together to discuss something, the ball is left at the spot of the throwin. If the coach wants to know where the ball will be inbounded, it will always be where the ball is, 100% of the time.

Why doesn't the "off" official come to the throw-in spot instead the administering official leaving the ball?

blindzebra68 · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:50pm

I totally, totally agree! I am as much to blame as my partners for this instance! My partner after the game stated that he had in fact told the coach this..and he still felt the whole game wasn't messed up..just last 2.5. So he wasn't to blame.
Long story short...I should have stepped up..taken control of situation. Made sure it was correct. Hind sight is 20/20.

BillyMac · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 03, 2012, 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am not a fan of putting the ball down. There are too many people that can mess with the ball or trip over the ball like cheerleaders. Because in your situation the ball can be moved by someone and then what?

Others on the Forum, in the past, have criticized me on this point before. Thirty-two years. No one has ever moved the basketball. Never ever.