Pushing vs OOB- Rebounding

[Pantherdreams]

Since we were discussing out of bounds and this was a little more specifc I thought it might need its own thread.

A1 Misses shot of the rim. A5 is being boxed out by B5. A5 Jumps/Pushes onto and into B5's back to make a play for the ball. A5 gets hands on it as a result of the contact but the ball goes off B5. Out of bounds.

I've gotten to the point with this call that if I get a new partner I will pregame it with them to make sure we are on the same page in terms of the call. Some partners will call the foul to clean up the play, others will simply give the ball to team A as they are not disadvantaged. Obivously knocking someone down or significant displacement is a serperate issue.

What would you have generally in your games call wise? Pushing foul on this play or just the OOB?

[APG]

Call the foul if it's a foul or call OOB on the correct team.

[Tio]

Fouls are fouls and MUST be called. Marginal contact can be a no-call.

Given that you are describing a foul, your credibility as an official goes WAY down if everyone can see a foul which you do not call and then you make matters worse by calling an OOB the wrong direction. This is an old "philosophy" that should not be part of today's officiating, but unfortunately has been passed down by members of the old guard.

I would make sure you get YOUR plays right. If you think it may be a concern given prior experience with a crew, I think your approach to mention it in pregame is smart.

[Raymond]

I'm not calling an OOB to the wrong team. Not something I want showing up on somebody's video.

[Pantherdreams]

Thanks what if the ball goes off of A5?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not calling an OOB to the wrong team. Not something I want showing up on somebody's video.

Video is the key. Way back in the twentieth century, before everybody, and their mother, had a camera in their cell phone, many officials would consider ignoring the foul, and giving the ball to the "wrong" team on the out of bounds play described. No more. Those times are long gone. Everything we do today, with the possible exception of getting dressed in the locker room, is on tape. Either charge the foul, or give the ball to the correct team on the out of bounds call. Those are the only two choices. Either fish, or cut bait.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Since we were discussing out of bounds and this was a little more specifc I thought it might need its own thread.

A1 Misses shot of the rim. A5 is being boxed out by B5. A5 Jumps/Pushes onto and into B5's back to make a play for the ball. A5 gets hands on it as a result of the contact but the ball goes off B5. Out of bounds.


I've gotten to the point with this call that if I get a new partner I will pregame it with them to make sure we are on the same page in terms of the call. Some partners will call the foul to clean up the play, others will simply give the ball to team A as they are not disadvantaged. Obivously knocking someone down or significant displacement is a serperate issue.

What would you have generally in your games call wise? Pushing foul on this play or just the OOB?

B5 plays great defense and A5 affected B5's ability to secure possession. Foul on A5. Easy call. Don't play these silly games where B5 touched it last and you give it back to B5 on an out of bounds violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Thanks what if the ball goes off of A5?

Then you have 2 legitimate choices to pick from.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Since we were discussing out of bounds and this was a little more specifc I thought it might need its own thread.

A1 Misses shot of the rim. A5 is being boxed out by B5. A5 Jumps/Pushes onto and into B5's back to make a play for the ball. A5 gets hands on it as a result of the contact but the ball goes off B5. Out of bounds.

I've gotten to the point with this call that if I get a new partner I will pregame it with them to make sure we are on the same page in terms of the call. Some partners will call the foul to clean up the play, others will simply give the ball to team A as they are not disadvantaged. Obivously knocking someone down or significant displacement is a serperate issue.

What would you have generally in your games call wise? Pushing foul on this play or just the OOB?

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Thanks what if the ball goes off of A5?

The concept to use is often called "Possession Consequence".

If the "right" player/team gets the ball or will get the ball as a result of a violation, you don't have to call the foul, you can allow the play to develop naturally. That can either mean that B5 (or a teammate) got the ball or there was an immediate violation that ends up with B having the ball. You have the OPTION to not call the foul and let play continue with B in control of the ball or with a throwin for B.

If the "wrong" team/player gets the ball as a result, you have a "possession consequence" and should call the foul. You should not generally call something that didn't happen (an OOB call off what is clearly the wrong player).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The concept to use is often called "Possession Consequence".

If the "right" player/team gets the ball or will get the ball as a result of a violation, you don't have to call the foul, you can allow the play to develop naturally. That can either mean that B5 (or a teammate) got the ball or there was an immediate violation that ends up with B having the ball. You have the OPTION to not call the foul and let play continue with B in control of the ball or with a throwin for B.

If the "wrong" team/player gets the ball as a result, you have a "possession consequence" and should call the foul. You should not generally call something that didn't happen (an OOB call off what is clearly the wrong player).

Occasionally, I still get feedback from a vet indicating I could have "saved the foul" and simply given the ball to the wronged team.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The concept to use is often called "Possession Consequence". ...

What is the current general philosophy/acceptability of this practice? That is more or less how I was taught, but it seems like it is losing favorability.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not calling an OOB to the wrong team. Not something I want showing up on somebody's video.

The only way I would not call a foul is if it is so bang-bang that I cannot determine if the foul took place and the same team would get the ball back. Otherwise, I am calling the foul. I think if we just call the foul what you said will not be the case. Video has changed everything. That philosophy to just give the ball back to the "right team" might have worked over 10 years ago, but YouTube and other forums have changed everything.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by rekent

What is the current general philosophy/acceptability of this practice? That is more or less how I was taught, but it seems like it is losing favorability.

Losing favor? What are you hearing in favor of?

I've been thought to call a foul in rebounding situations if there's possession consequence or to clean up rough play.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by APG

Losing favor? What are you hearing in favor of? ...

For example: A1 under pressure bringing the ball into the front-court, B1 bumps A1 creating enough contact that a foul could be called and it is not marginal, but A1 keeps his balance and takes off and is actually put in a better position now than if the foul had been called.

When I was first learning from a D1 official, I was told to save that call and let A1 keep the resulting advantage. Now though, (far less experienced and lower level) people are saying to call that foul even though there was no "possession consequence."

So that is my question. In the officiating community, is allowing that play to go because it puts the aggrieved player in a better position despite callable contact still the favored approach, or is what I am being told now to call everything regardless of a lack of "possession consequence" the more currently accepted approach?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by rekent

What is the current general philosophy/acceptability of this practice? That is more or less how I was taught, but it seems like it is losing favorability.

I think you have it backward.