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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 09:10am
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4-23 Gurading is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an OFFENSIVE opponent.

So, guarding is an act by the defense.

Only the offensive player is protected by 4-23-4b and 4-23-5d (if airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor)

So, yes, which player has the ball can be a consideration.

I have a foul on the defense.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 11:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Only the offensive player is protected by 4-23-4b and 4-23-5d (if airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor)
This is why I can see a foul on the defense.

Having said that, someone here said -- paraphrasing -- that the shooter didn't contact the defender with an appendage. What about the entire body? It looks to me like the shooter clearly threw everything he had into the defender, which is why I also have a PC foul. Isn't this one of those rare instances where you can have both?
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Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
This is why I can see a foul on the defense.

Having said that, someone here said -- paraphrasing -- that the shooter didn't contact the defender with an appendage. What about the entire body? It looks to me like the shooter clearly threw everything he had into the defender, which is why I also have a PC foul. Isn't this one of those rare instances where you can have both?
Still undecided on this play. Here's something I don't fully understand. Obviously the defender obtained LGP and tried to block first shot, offense "passes" off team mate and regather's the ball, then shoots. My question is when does the defender lose LGP and secondly, would anyone consider that he had reobtained LGP while approaching shooter from behind. I think according to 4-23-2, he had LGP albeit from the side/behind.
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Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
Still undecided on this play. Here's something I don't fully understand. Obviously the defender obtained LGP and tried to block first shot, offense "passes" off team mate and regather's the ball, then shoots. My question is when does the defender lose LGP and secondly, would anyone consider that he had reobtained LGP while approaching shooter from behind. I think according to 4-23-2, he had LGP albeit from the side/behind.
LGP is not at play when the defender is moving towards the shooter at contact.
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Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 12:58pm
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I cannot even believe this is a debate. The shooter and the ball handler under the rules is given a lot of consideration for when they are contacted by a defender. The rules or interpretations clearly do not allow a defender to basically touch a ball handler and never suggests that it is handchecking to do the same to a non-ball handler. People suggest in almost every situation any contact with an airborne shooter is a foul, but then we now want to debate a defender that left his feet is not giving consideration to be fouled, but if he never left his feet there would be no contact.

I sure love this board.

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Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:06pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I cannot even believe this is a debate. The shooter and the ball handler under the rules is given a lot of consideration for when they are contacted by a defender. The rules or interpretations clearly do not allow a defender to basically touch a ball handler and never suggests that it is handchecking to do the same to a non-ball handler. People suggest in almost every situation any contact with an airborne shooter is a foul, but then we now want to debate a defender that left his feet is not giving consideration to be fouled, but if he never left his feet there would be no contact.

I sure love this board.

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Seems like a pretty easy play in my eyes as well. I'd expect to see this play called a foul every single time in an NBA and NCAA game.
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Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:11pm
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Originally Posted by APG View Post
Seems like a pretty easy play in my eyes as well. I'd expect to see this play called a foul every single time in an NBA and NCAA game.
Not only was the defender not vertical, he was not in a Legal Guarding Position. I honestly do not see why this is a debate. And those suggesting such have not used any rules to support their position.

I guess I could see if Love threw and elbow to the head or did something flagrant that resulted in contact, but that is not what took place.

Oh well, I know what I am going to call. And I do not work for any of these people here that think otherwise. Life is good.

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Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I cannot even believe this is a debate. The shooter and the ball handler under the rules is given a lot of consideration for when they are contacted by a defender. The rules or interpretations clearly do not allow a defender to basically touch a ball handler and never suggests that it is handchecking to do the same to a non-ball handler. People suggest in almost every situation any contact with an airborne shooter is a foul, but then we now want to debate a defender that left his feet is not giving consideration to be fouled, but if he never left his feet there would be no contact.

I sure love this board.

Peace
It looks like in the video that the defender was trying to avoid contact. Would anyone consider the defender to have LGP and be moving obliquely to the shooter. Shooter causes the contact. Also, it appears the defender had one foot on the floor when the contact occurred. (Can't be sure because shooters leg blocks view.) Does this change anything.

Still not decided. just asking questions.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
Would anyone consider the defender to have LGP and be moving obliquely to the shooter.
No.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
It looks like in the video that the defender was trying to avoid contact. Would anyone consider the defender to have LGP and be moving obliquely to the shooter. Shooter causes the contact. Also, it appears the defender had one foot on the floor when the contact occurred. (Can't be sure because shooters leg blocks view.) Does this change anything.

Still not decided. just asking questions.
Where does it say in the rulebook anything about "Trying to avoid contact while going airborne?" If you can show that to me, then maybe that would make some sense. That makes no sense what so ever. He jumped too early to make an attempt to block or obstruct the shot. He was not in a legal position and the ball handler noticed that he was about to get jumped into and made a legal move. Again, show me a rules reference and do not tell me what you just think?

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:00pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
LGP is not at play when the defender is moving towards the shooter at contact.
You can move toward the shooter with LGP. The defender just can't be the one to cause contact while moving forward.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 27, 2012, 01:04pm
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Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
You can move toward the shooter with LGP. The defender just can't be the one to cause contact while moving forward.
Say what? You lose LGP as soon as you move toward an opponent. You can only move backwards, sideways, or obliquely to maintain LGP.
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