When "shall" means "must"??

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Sounds like a healthly penalty for a ref screwup...realizing that we are not giving the T unless we've asked B players to get in the spots, or given a few seconds at least for them to get there.

Pretty sure that is not even remotely what he is indicating. If you ask the coach to get 2 players in those spots and he refuses or ignores the request, then the T. For me, this would only happen if I've exhausted all reasonable attempts to get the coach to comply.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Pretty sure that is not even remotely what he is indicating. If you ask the coach to get 2 players in those spots and he refuses or ignores the request, then the T. For me, this would only happen if I've exhausted all reasonable attempts to get the coach to comply.

Exactly. It's a T for delaying the game. So, it has to be called before the ball is given to the shooter (otherwise it isn't delaying the game). Since there isn't any FT attempt, there can't be any violation.

If you call, and report the T, and the coach *still* doesn't send two players to the lower blocks, then it's another T.

Your game has gone terribly wrong by this point.

[silverpie]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If you call, and report the T, and the coach *still* doesn't send two players to the lower blocks, then it's another T.

Waitaminute. Doesn't the T now put you in a situation where the free throws are shot with the lane cleared?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by silverpie

Waitaminute. Doesn't the T now put you in a situation where the free throws are shot with the lane cleared?

Yes. Good point.

[letemplay]

Jeez...I'm beginning to regret being the OP on this, what I thought was, relatively insignificant play As this holiday rolls closer, I'm just thankful that the finer game of basketball has so many debateable points. Happy Turkey Day...one and all

[tjchamp]

I really don't think you could give a T in this situation. 9-1-2 indicates "Teams shall properly occupy marked lane spaces according to number and space requirements as in 8-1-4.". The penalty for failure to comply is in 9-1-P2 -
2. If the violation is by the free-thrower's opponent only:
a. If the try is successful, the goal counts and the violation is disre*garded.
b. If the try is not successful, the ball becomes dead when the free throw ends, and a substitute throw shall be attempted by the same free thrower under conditions the same as for the free throw for which it is substituted.


Maybe you could give one for 10-1-5b (delaying game), but even that would be a stretch. They just keep getting a violation penalty until opponent makes both throws. Then they have to take the ball out of bounds. If they are not ready then, you really do have problems.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tjchamp

I really don't think you could give a T in this situation. 9-1-2 indicates "Teams shall properly occupy marked lane spaces according to number and space requirements as in 8-1-4.". The penalty for failure to comply is in 9-1-P2 -
2. If the violation is by the free-thrower's opponent only:
a. If the try is successful, the goal counts and the violation is disre*garded.
b. If the try is not successful, the ball becomes dead when the free throw ends, and a substitute throw shall be attempted by the same free thrower under conditions the same as for the free throw for which it is substituted.


Maybe you could give one for 10-1-5b (delaying game), but even that would be a stretch. They just keep getting a violation penalty until opponent makes both throws. Then they have to take the ball out of bounds. If they are not ready then, you really do have problems.

10-1-5b is the exact rule that allows a T to be called. Corrensponding case plays verify this.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Pretty sure that is not even remotely what he is indicating. If you ask the coach to get 2 players in those spots and he refuses or ignores the request, then the T. For me, this would only happen if I've exhausted all reasonable attempts to get the coach to comply.

I get that and I realize all this is preventable, but what I'm really trying to find out is what penalty is there (if any) if it does happen? Suppose it's 2-man jv game with one very inexperienced official administering the free throw and the T (guy with some years exp) has turned away for a second to speak with A HC, only to look back at free throw area in time to see A1 getting ready to let the first shot go and notices B has none or only one of the lower spaces occupied. Team A HC thinks he's knows this rule and is up yelling for a violation....T complies and lets A1 have another (first) shot...much to the protest now of B HC. Right or wrong handling of play?