Basketball rule

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tio

I think this is a good example of where preventative officiating can fix the problem. I would call the player on it and tell him not to do it. Next time he does it then call a technical foul. Definitely unsporting move and could escalate in a hurry if he hits someone.

At very little ages (like, 10YO), I can see that (although I would not). At older ages, this is a good example of where not inventing a rule is a good idea. The perceived "problem" is not a problem in reality. The act described is not against the rules, and is no more unsporting than any other fake pass.

[Tio]

I think it would be helpful to see the play, but you are well within your rights to penalize with a Technical foul if you deem the action an "unsporting act." I personally, would prefer to talk to the player to resolve the issue... if you can avoid someone getting hit in the face with the ball, it will make the rest of the game much easier versus a potential flashpoint.

Luckily, a good defender would rip the ball out and that is why you don't see this move often. It is more likely on a save of an OOB play, but hard to penalize....

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Tio

I think it would be helpful to see the play, but you are well within your rights to penalize with a Technical foul if you deem the action an "unsporting act." I personally, would prefer to talk to the player to resolve the issue... if you can avoid someone getting hit in the face with the ball, it will make the rest of the game much easier versus a potential flashpoint.

Luckily, a good defender would rip the ball out and that is why you don't see this move often. It is more likely on a save of an OOB play, but hard to penalize....

I guess I'm not getting why anyone would consider this non-sporting at any real age. I see no issue for you to resolve ... and instead see that if you decide to invent a rule and warn someone not to do something that's not illegal - you have then made it an issue.

I agree that if you can avoid someone getting in the face with a ball, that's nice. But there are a lot of other places it would be good to avoid getting hit with the ball - and you don't see anyone T'ing up a guy for faking a pass in that direction, do you?

[Adam]

I don't think this is making up a rule so much as applying one. If I see it as a legitimate threat, I'd rather deal with it early. Older players know how to deal with this, so the threshold is higher, but I don't think we should allow one player to intimidate his opponent with an implied threat.

Is it that different than faking an elbow or punch?

[MIC]

Am slightly surprised that anyone would consider this an acceptable part of the game at any age.

By the way, I do appreciate further comments on this as this forum looks the most likely place on the net to get insight on this phenomenon which is prevalent certainly in the non professional game and there is clearly something to debate here.

To clarify my situation:

First, I am dealing with younger players who are not very good in the grand scheme of things.

“This move in basketball against a decent opponent seems like a great way to have the ball popped out of your hands.”

There is no way that my players on the receiving end of this threat would be good enough to steal the ball from the outreached hands as has been suggested might be possible in a higher level game. The offending player gets an instant advantage requiring no skill to get this advantage.

Second, and given the choice, I would much rather someone punched me in the face than threw a basketball in my face. The same goes with the threat of either action. A punch (by a 16 year old) might end up with a simple bloody nose, a b'ball popped in to the face would be a broken nose and therefore the threat is worse and certainly more cowardly.

As far as I'm concerned, basketball is a skill game and I don't get the skill in threatening to break someone's nose.

From MD Longhorn: "there are a lot of other places it would be good to avoid getting hit with the ball - and you don't see anyone T'ing up a guy for faking a pass in that direction, do you?"

I’ve never seen anyone try this so I can’t comment. It would be a threat (and an act of cowardice) with a similar level of consequences (the player on the receiving end would be put out of the game if it was followed through with). The threat should carry the same penalty as if the act was carried through with.

On the Bryant Barnes example, interesting that Barnes attempted to fake out Bryant from a dead ball situation (i.e. not in open play). Did he think he was more likely to get away with this while the ball was not in open play (before the whistle had gone) and hasn’t one of the refs got his hand on Barnes’ arm after the incident, presumably to warn him?

The Barnes example is the only one anyone has mentioned so far. Is this because this just doesn’t happen as much in pro ball? It certainly does at lower levels, doing nothing to protect truly skillful players. This being my aim.

And surely isn’t the reason we don’t see it too much in pro ball that pro players know it’s a cowardly thing to do and they would get called on it, not just by referees, but players, coaches and fans?

If this is true, shouldn’t we have the same standard when reffing and teaching young players how to play (and win) with skill?

[APG]

Originally Posted by MIC

And surely isn’t the reason we don’t see it too much in pro ball that pro players know it’s a cowardly thing to do and they would get called on it, not just by referees, but players, coaches and fans?

If this is true, shouldn’t we have the same standard when reffing and teaching young players how to play (and win) with skill?

No. The reason you don't see this in pro ball is it's a waste of time. It might work once...then the next time you try it, you'll lose possession of it someway or another.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by APG

No. The reason you don't see this in pro ball is it's a waste of time. It might work once...then the next time you try it, you'll lose possession of it someway or another.

Agreed, and while I agree with MIC that this could be seen as a threat similar faking (not throwing) a punch, I completely disagree that it's prevalent in ball at any level. I work a good amount of youth ball, and I don't see it more than once every few years. If it's happening in a given area often enough to warrant a complaint, then that's poor coaching.

Teach your kids that it's an empty threat, if the officials aren't doing anything. If the fake brings the ball over the boundary line, teach them to grab it.