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-   -   "That was a WEAK foul!!!" (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/92939-weak-foul.html)

deecee Fri Nov 16, 2012 08:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Whitten (Post 862387)
B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials..
Nip this in the bud. Especially in a MS game.

As for the T, it was a good one. Whenever a coach tells me he wasn't talking to me I usually laugh inside.

Adam Fri Nov 16, 2012 08:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsl (Post 862498)
Agreed, but what the OP described (raucous crowd and borderline coach) makes me think the it was casual in this case. Just my opinion.
Probably, I just don't like asking that question when a guy is second guessing himself. Too many times the coach is stupid, and a good T doesn't help.
Or a smart coach will just live quietly with a bad T.

rsl Fri Nov 16, 2012 08:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 862506)
Probably, I just don't like asking that question when a guy is second guessing himself. Too many times the coach is stupid, and a good T doesn't help.
Or a smart coach will just live quietly with a bad T.
OK, I see your point.

APG Fri Nov 16, 2012 08:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Whitten (Post 862387)
May have kicked a technical foul last night. Very competitive MS boys game. B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials. A1 is driving across the lane when he is hacked on the arm By B1 as he is gathering the ball. Coach B is immediately asking me what B1 did. After reporting the foul, I explained the call to him. He huffs and stomps off yelling, "That was a WEAK foul!!!" I took it as directed at me and my call (and possibly inciting his already boisterous crowd). After meeting with my partner and going over the foul shooting order, etc., Coach B called me over (calmly) and contended that he was yelling at his player. Until that moment I had not considered that as a possibility. I explained the way I perceived it and we moved on. After that we had a better game.
In of itself, "that's a weak call," is nothing in my books. I don't think it's a comment that's personal. Now with the theatrics that you mentioned, plus the inciting of the crowd, I wouldn't have a problem with the call.

Adam Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 862509)
In of itself, "that's a weak call," is nothing in my books. I don't think it's a comment that's personal. Now with the theatrics that you mentioned, plus the inciting of the crowd, I wouldn't have a problem with the call.
For me, the comment alone would get rung. It's no different than "that's a middle school call."

APG Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 862513)
For me, the comment alone would get rung. It's no different than "that's a middle school call."
If we're talking about statements in of themselves, I don't see this being the same. This statement can a coach's backhanded attempt at saying one's officiating abilities are not par for the game and that one does not belong in a game. A coach saying a call is weak, in my books, it the same as him saying a call is bad.

deecee Fri Nov 16, 2012 09:23pm
I don't think the comment alone is T worthy, my opinion. It's the same if a coach says "that was an awful call", "that call stunk". Just the comment is simple venting. How they say it and what they do are different, but if I just heard those statements as is I wouldn't T them up.

JugglingReferee Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Whitten (Post 862387)
May have kicked a technical foul last night. Very competitive MS boys game. B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials. A1 is driving across the lane when he is hacked on the arm By B1 as he is gathering the ball. Coach B is immediately asking me what B1 did. After reporting the foul, I explained the call to him. He huffs and stomps off yelling, "That was a WEAK foul!!!" I took it as directed at me and my call (and possibly inciting his already boisterous crowd). After meeting with my partner and going over the foul shooting order, etc., Coach B called me over (calmly) and contended that he was yelling at his player. Until that moment I had not considered that as a possibility. I explained the way I perceived it and we moved on. After that we had a better game.
T.

Coaches don't act that way towards their players.

Adam Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG (Post 862514)
If we're talking about statements in of themselves, I don't see this being the same. This statement can a coach's backhanded attempt at saying one's officiating abilities are not par for the game and that one does not belong in a game. A coach saying a call is weak, in my books, it the same as him saying a call is bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 862515)
I don't think the comment alone is T worthy, my opinion. It's the same if a coach says "that was an awful call", "that call stunk". Just the comment is simple venting. How they say it and what they do are different, but if I just heard those statements as is I wouldn't T them up.
I really don't see the difference, but I'd have to hear it in the game to say for sure. I'll say this, though, the odds of me calling this in a middle school game are almost 100%.

JRutledge Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:46am
For me that comment would not get a T in itself, but if it was included in other bad behavior then the coach is on sketchy ground with me. Does that mean that I would give a T here? Probably not, but I can see how that was the result.

I think we all have to find our "line in the sand." Some have a shorter line than others.

Like I was told a long time ago, "When you roll the dice, you just might crap out." So a coach is taking a chance that any of his comments will be misunderstood. And if he does not want it that way, well you know what they say about quoting silence.

Peace

deecee Sat Nov 17, 2012 01:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 862527)
I really don't see the difference, but I'd have to hear it in the game to say for sure. I'll say this, though, the odds of me calling this in a middle school game are almost 100%.
yes level of play does play a difference. But when I speak, I speak (not to put it bluntly) for games that matter.

vbzebra Sat Nov 17, 2012 06:54am
hs scrimmage, had to T a coach this week for similar...opponent driving to basket for layup, gets contact to the head, i call foul, count basket. coach then wants to 'ask' me about it during the ft. i acknowledge (tableside anyway after reporting).

"you're suddenly making all the calls and they're going the other way". ok coach, i hear ya, and begin to walk away. Then I hear "that's bull$h!t, it's absolute bull$h!t!" being yelled from him. Whack.

Partners then said i should have let the contact to the head go without a whistle since he made the layup and i shouldn't have whacked the coach :eek:

Rob1968 Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:15am
Quote: "Partners then said i should have let the contact to the head go without a whistle since he made the layup and i shouldn't have whacked the coach."

My thought in such a situation, "Uh, did I just get "big-timed?"
Sometimes, I wish I could T up a partner(s)!:(

Adam Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 862541)
yes level of play does play a difference. But when I speak, I speak (not to put it bluntly) for games that matter.
And I was speaking to the OP.

twocentsworth Sat Nov 17, 2012 05:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbzebra (Post 862546)
hs scrimmage, had to T a coach this week for similar...opponent driving to basket for layup, gets contact to the head, i call foul, count basket. coach then wants to 'ask' me about it during the ft. i acknowledge (tableside anyway after reporting).

"you're suddenly making all the calls and they're going the other way". ok coach, i hear ya, and begin to walk away. Then I hear "that's bull$h!t, it's absolute bull$h!t!" being yelled from him. Whack.

Partners then said i should have let the contact to the head go without a whistle since he made the layup and i shouldn't have whacked the coach :eek:
if my partners said something like that to me....my response: "I appreciate your opinion. Here's my opinion: EVERY time a shooter gets hit in the head and a coach yells 'that's bull$hit', I WILL blow my whistle."

btw, those partners are complete idiots!


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