"That was a WEAK foul!!!"
 

May have kicked a technical foul last night. Very competitive MS boys game. B spectators quite vocal, bordering on abusive/personal comments toward officials. A1 is driving across the lane when he is hacked on the arm By B1 as he is gathering the ball. Coach B is immediately asking me what B1 did. After reporting the foul, I explained the call to him. He huffs and stomps off yelling, "That was a WEAK foul!!!" I took it as directed at me and my call (and possibly inciting his already boisterous crowd). After meeting with my partner and going over the foul shooting order, etc., Coach B called me over (calmly) and contended that he was yelling at his player. Until that moment I had not considered that as a possibility. I explained the way I perceived it and we moved on. After that we had a better game.

Doesn't sound like the way coach's "speak" to player. Sounds like the T worked the way it should.

This was directed at you. Good call on the T, and don't think anything else about it. He can call you over after the fact and say it wasn't directed at you, but if he does that right after you explained to him what happened on the play -- its a T.

"I wasn't talking to you" is the oldest, and weakest, defense in the coaching book. I'm guessing he hadn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt up to that point.

Prime Example.

Fast break to A1 dribbling towards the basket, A2, running along sets an illegal screen on B1 tryining to get across to A1. I am opposite the table and coach jumps and yells as loud as he can, "That is pathetic, just pathetic". I give him a T. He then says he wasn't talking about me, and say the call was pathetic not me.

Weak indeed. A good response is, "Coach I know who you were talking to." Not antagonistic, sarcastic, or disrespectful, but it doesn't let him slide nor invite further discussion.

Or, for my fellow English speakers, "Coach, I know to whom you were talking." ;)

Now, if I just had a good response to the new coach fave around here: "C'mon, maven, you're better than that!" My most recent response to that one is, "Thanks, coach!"

Nice Catch!
 

Attention: Grammar Police Alert . . .

Oh, nevermind. ;)

I told a player once, "No, you were talking to me through your teammates." I'll go with yours instead.

On your last, depending on my rapport, I might respond with, "I think we both know I'm not."

I've warned a coach who was having a very audible convo with his player by telling him that's the type of conversation I don't want to hear in the future.

My assignor must not agree - he keeps sending me to your games.

"I understand Coach. The T wasn't because you're pathetic....it's because what you said was pathetic."

+1

And there is the answer... Good T.

The answer to whether it was a good T rarely involves asking if the game got better. The two are perhaps correlated, but not causal.

Agreed, but what the OP described (raucous crowd and borderline coach) makes me think the it was casual in this case. Just my opinion.

Nip this in the bud. Especially in a MS game.

As for the T, it was a good one. Whenever a coach tells me he wasn't talking to me I usually laugh inside.

Probably, I just don't like asking that question when a guy is second guessing himself. Too many times the coach is stupid, and a good T doesn't help.
Or a smart coach will just live quietly with a bad T.

OK, I see your point.

In of itself, "that's a weak call," is nothing in my books. I don't think it's a comment that's personal. Now with the theatrics that you mentioned, plus the inciting of the crowd, I wouldn't have a problem with the call.

For me, the comment alone would get rung. It's no different than "that's a middle school call."

If we're talking about statements in of themselves, I don't see this being the same. This statement can a coach's backhanded attempt at saying one's officiating abilities are not par for the game and that one does not belong in a game. A coach saying a call is weak, in my books, it the same as him saying a call is bad.

I don't think the comment alone is T worthy, my opinion. It's the same if a coach says "that was an awful call", "that call stunk". Just the comment is simple venting. How they say it and what they do are different, but if I just heard those statements as is I wouldn't T them up.

T.

Coaches don't act that way towards their players.

I really don't see the difference, but I'd have to hear it in the game to say for sure. I'll say this, though, the odds of me calling this in a middle school game are almost 100%.

For me that comment would not get a T in itself, but if it was included in other bad behavior then the coach is on sketchy ground with me. Does that mean that I would give a T here? Probably not, but I can see how that was the result.

I think we all have to find our "line in the sand." Some have a shorter line than others.

Like I was told a long time ago, "When you roll the dice, you just might crap out." So a coach is taking a chance that any of his comments will be misunderstood. And if he does not want it that way, well you know what they say about quoting silence.

Peace

yes level of play does play a difference. But when I speak, I speak (not to put it bluntly) for games that matter.

hs scrimmage, had to T a coach this week for similar...opponent driving to basket for layup, gets contact to the head, i call foul, count basket. coach then wants to 'ask' me about it during the ft. i acknowledge (tableside anyway after reporting).

"you're suddenly making all the calls and they're going the other way". ok coach, i hear ya, and begin to walk away. Then I hear "that's bull$h!t, it's absolute bull$h!t!" being yelled from him. Whack.

Partners then said i should have let the contact to the head go without a whistle since he made the layup and i shouldn't have whacked the coach :eek:

Quote: "Partners then said i should have let the contact to the head go without a whistle since he made the layup and i shouldn't have whacked the coach."

My thought in such a situation, "Uh, did I just get "big-timed?"
Sometimes, I wish I could T up a partner(s)!:(

And I was speaking to the OP.

if my partners said something like that to me....my response: "I appreciate your opinion. Here's my opinion: EVERY time a shooter gets hit in the head and a coach yells 'that's bull$hit', I WILL blow my whistle."

btw, those partners are complete idiots!

...tell your partners they need to grow some balls if they are going to be doing any more H.S. games...SHEESH!:rolleyes:

Were these the same partners who worked your college scrimmage?

I wacked a coach whose team was 17 pts behind in the first half. After that he started coaching and, although they lost the game, they cut the lead to 2 points at one time. I wonder if AD's realize that taxpayer money is wasted on coaches who don't coach. What I really want to tell a coach at that time is, "Coach, you're behind by 17 pts. Your team needs your efforts more than I do." As a parent, I'd be upset that my kid is being ignored while the refs get all the attention.

actually, no :D

All games matter to someone.

Devil's Advocate ...
 

Maybe he was coaching? Maybe he was trying to get his kids "fired up"? And he unknowingly included you in his devious plan that seemed to work.

As Dr. Naismith, And God, Intended ...
 

Amen.

The sad part is, this might be the coach's takeaway from the game.

I love how coaches and players will take a swipe at officiating/calls and claim they were talking to their team. If a coach says to his player "the refs suck." How is that any different than if it is said to your face?

On this play, I would only advise the following. If you KNOW that you got the play right (foul) then my tolerance for objection goes WAY down. If it was a tough play, then I will let the coach vent if done so professionally. The stomping around is unacceptable bench decorum and the T is warranted on those merits alone. Not to mention, you are having issues with the crowd and poor coach behavior only incites the crowd and makes it worse. I think you did the right thing.

Clasic Line ...
 

Jim Valvano: "Can I get a technical foul for what I'm thinking?"
Hank Nichols: "No."
Jim Valvano: "That's good, because I think you stink."

USATODAY.com - Technical foul calls gone wild