Concussion Discussion

[grunewar]

Monty Williams of New Orleans Hornets rips NBA's concussion policy with top pick Anthony Davis not on road trip - ESPN

Agree? Disagree? Coach is crazy?

I had to explain the policy once during a Rec Game to a coach and parent. But that kid's head hit the floor hard and mom had no problems with it. She did say, "He's had worse," though.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I had to explain the policy once during a Rec Game to a coach and parent. But that kid's head hit the floor hard and mom had no problems with it. She did say, "He's had worse," though.

Doesn't seem that NBA coach speaks for anyone in an NFHS setting. Or maybe he's setting the table for himself so as not be be called as a juror in any future case of a player choosing on his own to "tough it out" and decide to put himself back into a game with a concussion who then later on decides to file a lawsuit against the team for allowing him to continue playing with a concussion.

Sounds like you handled it well with your coach and the parent. I don't think your player's parent was the team's Approved Health Care Provider, was she?

[Adam]

In rec (YMCA, AAU, etc), I simply inform them of the rule. I don't make any determinations.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Adam

In rec (YMCA, AAU, etc), I simply inform them of the rule. I don't make any determinations.

If I send them out, they're not coming back unless an AHCP tells me he can come back.

The state association tells me that in a HS game, I can assume the player has been approved by a medical doctor to return.

I don't get that waiver in any other setting I've worked.

[just another ref]

New policy here, updated last year, I think.


LHSAA Adopted Concussion Management Protocol:
1. No athlete shall return to play (RTP) or practice on the same day of a concussion.
2. Any athlete suspected of having a concussion shall be evaluated by an appropriate health-care professional that day. If one is not available, the Head Coach shall make the determination.



"You feel all right now, son? Good! Get back in there!"

[JRutledge]

In non-state HS game there are no policy unless those leagues you deal with have an actual policy. In our state AHCP is defined very specifically and schools must follow the policy according to IHSA rules. There are no such standards in other games like AAU. I would probably not play around with someone displaying rules and unless I know someone was a doctor and they gave me something that proved they were a doctor, then I would not allow them to play. Talked to a lawyer about this and he said they would have to give him a lot of information to even consider such action to have a player return. Then said because there is no policy that he would not usually allow someone into a game under those circumstances because when the stuff hits the fan, they are going to hold us responsible.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

New policy here, updated last year, I think.


LHSAA Adopted Concussion Management Protocol:
1. No athlete shall return to play (RTP) or practice on the same day of a concussion.
2. Any athlete suspected of having a concussion shall be evaluated by an appropriate health-care professional that day. If one is not available, the Head Coach shall make the determination.



"You feel all right now, son? Good! Get back in there!"

I couldn't believe they could be so stupid, so I looked it up and, yup, they are that stupid.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Rich

I couldn't believe they could be so stupid, so I looked it up and, yup, they are that stupid.

Feeling around here was similar, that coaches who, according to the state, could serve as "approved health care provider" would put us in a compromising position and send in a concussed player who shouldn't re-enter. As it turns out, they seem to be so leery of potential lawsuits coming down upon them, they've just been benching the player and it hasn't become an issue to any of us. So far. But based on what I'm seeing and what the AD's around here are mandating from their coaches, it won't be an issue near as I can tell.
State legislature is in the middle of passing a bill to require what happens to be our state association's protocol to cover non-school sports as well. Seems to me that if both the state legislature and our state association pass policies which keep us out of the diagnosis, there's something valid about it that protects us.
Reason I carry NASO membership includes additional coverage in case the waste makes contact with the oscillating device.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In non-state HS game there are no policy unless those leagues you deal with have an actual policy.

For such games, if there is no policy, and if the game is played under NFHS rules, then shouldn't an official use the NFHS rule, which, to me, sounds like the kid doesn't play, unless someone (coach, parent, fan, etc.) claims that they are "an appropriate health care professional"?

NFHS 2-8: The officials shall:
ART. 5 . Immediately remove a player from the game who exhibits signs,
symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion as in 3-3-8.

NFHS 3-3-8: Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent
with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness,
confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the game
and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care
professional.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

MTD, Jr., and I are registered by both the OhioHSAA and the MichiganHSAA and both states have different protocols.

OhioHSAA: Once a player is removed from the game because of a suspected concussion: The player is not allowed to return for the remainder of the day unless he is cleared to return, in writing (The OhioHSAA has a special form which all schools are to have on file.), by either a Medical Doctor, an Osteopathic Docter, or an Ohio Licensed Athletic Trainer. If a player is cleared to return to play, the game official will send a copy of the completed writen from to the OhioHSAA and keep the original copy for himself.

MichiganHSAA: Once a player is removed from the game because of a suspected concussion: The game official must file a MichiganHSAA Game Report (The same one we use for ejections.). The player is not allowed to return to play until his school certifies to the MichiganHSAA that the player has been cleared to play by a proper medical professional.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For such games, if there is no policy, and if the game is played under NFHS rules, then shouldn't an official use the NFHS rule, which, to me, sounds like the kid doesn't play, unless someone (coach, parent, fan, etc.) claims that they are "an appropriate health care professional"?

NFHS 2-8: The officials shall:
ART. 5 . Immediately remove a player from the game who exhibits signs,
symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion as in 3-3-8.

NFHS 3-3-8: Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent
with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness,
confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the game
and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care
professional.

Is that situation going to fly in legal setting? That is the question you need to ask yourself above all. If the state organization has a policy and they are dealing with actual schools and administrations to come to a policy application, some AAU team might not and you will be held to a different standard. Honestly, I could give a damn what the NF rule says in this situation as this is a health issue outside of a HS or state organization game. And considering that there is not necessarily a certification for someone not licensed in state, I would rather not allow a player to play just using the NF Rules. I would rather that any non-sanctioned league had a policy that is in line with the rule to avoid further liability from the officials.

One more reason for me to avoid these leagues because HS and college has a clear policy.

Peace

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

MichiganHSAA: Once a player is removed from the game because of a suspected concussion: The game official must file a MichiganHSAA Game Report (The same one we use for ejections.). The player is not allowed to return to play until his school certifies to the MichiganHSAA that the player has been cleared to play by a proper medical professional. MTD, Sr.

What MTD says is correct. However, some officials have interpreted those words to say they are the ones who implement the whole process. Clarification was sent out by the state in the recent online rules meeting stating the entire protocol--copied below. This is the state protocol which spells it all out. Please forgive the length, but this further clarification is significant because many around here considered only the words accurately stated by MTD and stood fast that they would under no circumstances allow any player to reenter the game once they have ordered that they be removed and checked out--that's more than the state advises.

MHSAA PROTOCOL FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF NATIONAL
FEDERATION SPORTS PLAYING RULES FOR CONCUSSIONS
“Any athlete who exhibits signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the contest and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional.”
The language above, which appeared in all National Federation sports rule books for the 2011-12school year, reflects a strengthening of rules regarding the safety of athletes suspected of having a concussion.
For 2009-10, some sports rules required officials to remove from play any athlete who was “unconscious or apparently unconscious.” This new language reflects an increasing focus on safety, given that the vast majority of concussions do not involve a loss of consciousness.
This protocol is intended to provide the mechanics to follow during the course of contests when an athlete sustains an apparent concussion.
1. The officials will have no role in determining concussion other than the obvious one where a player is either unconscious or apparently unconscious as is provided for under the current rule. Officials will merely point out to a coach that a player is apparently injured and advise that the player should be examined by a health care provider for an exact determination of the extent of injury.
2. If it is confirmed by the school’s designated health care professional that the student did not sustain a concussion, the head coach may so advise the officials during an appropriate stoppage of play and the athlete may reenter competition pursuant to the contest rules.
3. Otherwise, if competition continues while the athlete is withheld for an apparent concussion, that athlete may not be returned to competition that day but is subject to the return to play protocol.
a. Only an MD or DO may clear the individual to return to competition.
b. The clearance must be in writing.
c. The clearance may not be on the same date on which the athlete was removed from play.
4. Following the contest, an Officials Report shall be filed with a removed player’s school and the MHSAA.
5. In cases where an assigned MHSAA tournament physician (MD/DO) is present, his or her decision to not allow an athlete to return to competition may not be overruled.

SANCTIONS FOR NON-COMPLIANCE WITH CONCUSSION MANAGEMENT POLICY
Following are the consequences for not complying with National Federation and MHSAA rules when players are removed from play because of a concussion:
• A concussed student is ineligible to return to any athletic meet or contest on the same day the concussion is sustained.
• A concussed student is ineligible to return to competition in a meet or contest on a subsequent day without the written authorization of an MD or DO.
These students are considered ineligible players and any meet or contest in which they have participated is forfeited.
In addition, that program is placed on probation through that sport season of the following school year.
For a second offense in that sport during the probationary period – that program is continued on probation through that sport season of the following school year and not permitted to participate in the
MHSAA tournament in that sport during the original and extended probationary period.