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without question, rules knowledge is absolutely essential to officiate basketball, but so is knowing how and when to apply those rules. i dont think it would help one's career to nitpick things as described in this thread.
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Those who claim this is a violation (and not a play-on) should call the OP a BC violation, as PC starts immediately once the player's dribble has begun. If his first push (or bat) is the start of his dribble, then it happens while he has FC status, meaning the dribble hitting the division line is a BC violation. |
definitions
As Nevadaref said, "a player cannot have player control by merely touching (batting, slapping or tapping) a pass." CB 4.15 COMMENT seems to cover this play. Since it was mentioned the ball was never caught then the pass must have been batted or allowed to rebound off the hand which does not constitute player control, therefore no violation.
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Agreed. In this case the initial bat does not define a dribble until it strikes the floor and subsequently remains in control of the player making the steal. I see this as totally different than the player who has ended a dribble, then pushes the ball toward the floor, intending to start another, even if it strikes something else instead. |
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If anything, it seems to me the OP is even more likely a violation than the second dribble scenario. One could argue that the second dribble isn't judged a dribble until the offensive player hits it again; but one cannot argue that player control starts at any point after the dribble begins. So, even if you don't judge it a dribble until it hits the floor and returns to the dribbler; it seems pretty clear that once the dribble does, player control will have started at the bat. |
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Isn't this exactly what happens in the OP? |
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Let me add a little twist
Team A has the ball. Team B bats the ball loose. The ball is being pin-balled. B1 bats the ball in the similar manner from the original post. The ball hits the ground and B1 gets fouled.
If Team B is in the bonus, does B1 shoot free throws? Same question. When does Team/Player control start? I had that play occur in my game last year. I immediately asked the Official that blew the whistle if B1 had control? His response was, "She got fouled, we are shooting free throws." I don't think he had a clue why I asked him the question. Also, he never wanted to discuss the play after the game ended. I don't think PC was established in either situation. |
I'm just saying
9-9-3?
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No Fooling Around Here ...
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4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball. 4-12-2-A: A team is in control of the ball: When a player of the team is in control. |
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