Anyone an "ESPN.com Insider"?

[APG]

Points I agreed with:

Freedom of movement: Definitely agree with this...and it's something that needs to be worked on at all levels. I think the problem with this at the college level, is the inconsistency. In one conference, FOM seems to be highly enforced...whilst in another conference, it's deemed incidental contact. Officials have many more hats they have to answer to at the collegiate level (and this was actually one of Bilas points at the beginning of the article which anyone can read)...rather than having direction from one ultimate authority.

Demonstrative: ABSOLUTELY AGREE...some of this stuff is theatrical...calls sometimes need to be sold...but that kind of loses it means when you see it on every, single play. No need to bird dog when everyone in the stadium knows whom the foul was on.

Coach's decorum: Gotta agree with Bilas...if some of these college coaches tried the crap they do at the next level, they'd get whacked early and often.

Timeouts: Definitely need to change the amount of timeouts given to coaches since media timeouts (at the highest levels) aren't going to be given up. It's absolutely silly that a coach can a timeout at 15:59, come back from that timeout, inbound the ball, ball goes OOB, then we get a MEDIA timeout. And this happens all the time. NCAA DI basketball is rivaling the NFL sometimes with their timeouts (Quick did you know...in an NFL games, there must be FIVE TV timeouts...per quarter!) I also agree that the 10 second count should not reset with a called timeout.

Lane violations: I don't know if I would go with awarding the ball rather than the sub FT, but I agree...made free throw, no violations period...both ways.

[Adam]

I disagree with making the 10 second count more like FIBA. There are only so many timeouts per game, so I have no problem with coaches who want to use them to avoid a 10 second count. It's just like avoiding a second throw in count, or avoiding a held ball, or an OOB violation. It's not really a problem, and it happens at most once per game, IMO.

As for the timeouts, that's the price of all that TV coverage we get; and the price of the replay reviews, for that matter.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree with making the 10 second count more like FIBA. There are only so many timeouts per game, so I have no problem with coaches who want to use them to avoid a 10 second count. It's just like avoiding a second throw in count, or avoiding a held ball, or an OOB violation. It's not really a problem, and it happens at most once per game, IMO.

As for the timeouts, that's the price of all that TV coverage we get; and the price of the replay reviews, for that matter.

I just think that if you play defense well enough to hold them in the backcourt for nearly 10 seconds, the offense shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of a timeout. And as it is now in NCAA...timeouts aren't as valuable as it isn't rare to see a team with 3-4 timeouts left at the end of games. The NBA has this right.

And as far the amount of timeouts, just reduce the number of timeouts coaches can have...or if a coach calls a timeout at a media timeout threshold, charge him his timeout, and make it a media length timeout.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I just think that if you play defense well enough to hold them in the backcourt for nearly 10 seconds, the offense shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of a timeout. And as it is now in NCAA...timeouts aren't as valuable as it isn't rare to see a team with 3-4 timeouts left at the end of games. The NBA has this right.

And as far the amount of timeouts, just reduce the number of timeouts coaches can have...or if a coach calls a timeout at a media timeout threshold, charge him his timeout, and make it a media length timeout.

The ten second issue would be solved by Bilas' suggestion to have timeouts granted like in FIBA; through the table. Or, to be honest, taking away the ability for coaches to request a timeout during a live ball would reduce this, too. Again, though, it's not a common problem so I don't see much of a need to make the change.

I could see them adjusting the media timeout situation so that there's a set amount of scheduled media time per game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I just think that if you play defense well enough to hold them in the backcourt for nearly 10 seconds, the offense shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of a timeout. And as it is now in NCAA...timeouts aren't as valuable as it isn't rare to see a team with 3-4 timeouts left at the end of games. The NBA has this right.

First of all this does not happen enough to even be an issue at the college level. Secondly the NBA is a different game with different ability of players. I think this would be a terrible rule for the college ranks.

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

First of all this does not happen enough to even be an issue at the college level. Secondly the NBA is a different game with different ability of players. I think this would be a terrible rule for the college ranks.

Peace

I have a hard time seeing how this rule has to do anything with the abilities of the players.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I have a hard time seeing how this rule has to do anything with the abilities of the players.

I do not see why the NBA has this right either. And pros have rules that apply to the talent of their players as well, which is why for example they do not have zone defense without the possibility of a defensive 3 seconds call. Some things need to stay at the pro level and this is one of those levels that need to stay there. We allow timeouts for other saving violations, why not this one?

Peace

[APG]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not see why the NBA has this right either. And pros have rules that apply to the talent of their players as well, which is why for example they do not have zone defense without the possibility of a defensive 3 seconds call. Some things need to stay at the pro level and this is one of those levels that need to stay there. We allow timeouts for other saving violations, why not this one?

Peace

I'm not saying the college game needs to adopt defensive three-second violations. Hell, they've already added what previously was one of the biggest rules difference between the two codes.

The only thing I would like to see them adopt is not having the backcourt count start over if a team calls a TO (and to extend that, if the ball goes OOB). I believe it's also how FIBA handles this as well.

It's not that huge of a deal either way...just addressing it since Bilas brought it up the article

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I just think that if you play defense well enough to hold them in the backcourt for nearly 10 seconds, the offense shouldn't be able to buy themselves out of a timeout. And as it is now in NCAA...timeouts aren't as valuable as it isn't rare to see a team with 3-4 timeouts left at the end of games. The NBA has this right.

APG, for me this is one of those situations where it's important to remember the rule book applies to more than the ACC, Big 10, Big East, etc. Is some low-level Div. 3 team going to be able to get the ball into frontcourt in 2 seconds after calling a time out when the count is at 8? There are just some things college players can't do which pros can, if only because of practice time.

Having to burn a time out seems like more than enough of a penalty for the offense.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

APG, for me this is one of those situations where it's important to remember the rule book applies to more than the ACC, Big 10, Big East, etc. Is some low-level Div. 3 team going to be able to get the ball into frontcourt in 2 seconds after calling a time out when the count is at 8? There are just some things college players can't do which pros can, if only because of practice time.

Having to burn a time out seems like more than enough of a penalty for the offense.

I just don't see this as a problem worth wasting time on. How may backcourt timeouts get called? Not very many. You could certainly argue whether the team deserves the count to be restarted or not vs. the price of a timeout.....but it will not materially affect 90+% of the games.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

APG, for me this is one of those situations where it's important to remember the rule book applies to more than the ACC, Big 10, Big East, etc. Is some low-level Div. 3 team going to be able to get the ball into frontcourt in 2 seconds after calling a time out when the count is at 8? There are just some things college players can't do which pros can, if only because of practice time.

Having to burn a time out seems like more than enough of a penalty for the offense.

You see, I don't see it as a problem if a team has only 2 seconds to advance it after a timeout...no matter the level. Because more likely than not, the defense forced them to waste those 8 seconds. And they're being rewarded for it. Plus, this is how the FIBA rule is (as far as the count not resetting if for instance, the ball goes OOB).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You see, I don't see it as a problem if a team has only 2 seconds to advance it after a timeout...no matter the level. Because more likely than not, the defense forced them to waste those 8 seconds. And they're being rewarded for it. Plus, this is how the FIBA rule is (as far as the count not resetting if for instance, the ball goes OOB).

I think the defense's reward is forcing the team to consume one of their timeouts.

And in NCAA rules with a shot clock, the shot clock doesn't reset so the real need for the 10 second count doesn't really even exist. The purpose of the 10 second count and the backcourt rule is to ensure that the offensive team doesn't have use of the entire court indefinitely (remember these both pre-dated the shot clock). With a shot clock, the duration that the offense has is already limited. They're not going to want to stay in the backcourt very long in any case.

IIRC, women's NCAA rules don't even have a backcourt count of any length.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Coach's decorum: Gotta agree with Bilas...if some of these college coaches tried the crap they do at the next level, they'd get whacked early and often.

But we know why this is. Assignors work for the coaches. If officials T up the coaches, the coaches complain to the assignor. Assignor decides he doesn't need the headache and the official's schedule suffers.

Since nobody wants to lose games because of a coach's complaints, fewer T's are called, even though everyone (including the officials on the games) knows that they are deserved.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

But we know why this is. Assignors work for the coaches. If officials T up the coaches, the coaches complain to the assignor. Assignor decides he doesn't need the headache and the official's schedule suffers.

Since nobody wants to lose games because of a coach's complaints, fewer T's are called, even though everyone (including the officials on the games) knows that they are deserved.

I agree...and Bilas actually mentions this in the beginning of the article.

Why? College basketball officials are independent contractors and are therefore not employees who can be mandated to call games according to certain, strict guidelines. (Don't ask me the logic of how NCAA member institutions can pay "independent contractors" so much money to run on the floor with their "amateurs" and still claim they cannot provide compensation to the players or they will be "employees.") Officials are accountable to a degree but are not totally accountable, as are NBA or NFL officials. College officials are subject to some very real criticism from powerful coaches, both on the sidelines and in direct communication between supervisors and coaches. And the officials are often hamstrung by rules that are antiquated and make no logical sense.