Thanks ...

[JRutledge]

I have to echo this. I used the videos for my association and my new official's class. These are a much better way to make a point or to have debate. Video is the main way to go and thanks from someone that loves these videos much more than what we use them here for.

Peace

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I used the videos for my association and my new official's class.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

[APG]

How is it big timing it (I know, not your words)? Basketball is basketball...just because a certain level handles a play differently doesn't mean one can't use a clip and apply whatever standards are dictated for a level of play.

And the benefit I find in using plays from NCAA and NBA games is that we're afforded multiple angles to see plays...all in HD. There's only so much one can see and tell from the usual view we get at the high school level.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

How is it big timing it (I know, not your words)? Basketball is basketball...just because a certain level handles a play differently doesn't mean one can't use a clip and apply whatever standards are dictated for a level of play.

And the benefit I find in using plays from NCAA and NBA games is that we're afforded multiple angles to see plays...all in HD. There's only so much one can see and tell from the usual view we get at the high school level.

I agree with this 100% and this is why I used them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

How is it big timing it (I know, not your words)? Basketball is basketball...just because a certain level handles a play differently doesn't mean one can't use a clip and apply whatever standards are dictated for a level of play.

And the benefit I find in using plays from NCAA and NBA games is that we're afforded multiple angles to see plays...all in HD. There's only so much one can see and tell from the usual view we get at the high school level.

The same organization that I run the basketball class that I founded, runs a football class as well. I am one of the lead instructors at a cite for that football class and we use video of college and pro all the time. Now the rules in football (as you know APG) are drastically different from an application standpoint. But the basic football rules are the exact same at all levels, but the college and pro has different applications. For example the same action might be a penalty at all levels, but college ranks it is an automatic first down at and the pro level the foul is enforced from the previous spot instead of the succeeding spot. All we have to do is explain that to the class and observers.

And in pro and college games many games have 10 cameras at each game and we can see multiple angles. This class is for very new officials and they often do not know better, but it helps them see what the rules state rather showing PowerPoint wording and hoping they understand. It usually enhances discussion and keeps everyone engaged in the discussions as well. I would not give a presentation without video if I can help it.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

Oh my, as long as the rims are 10' & they shoot FTs from the 15' mark & both teams have 5 players on the court... basketball is basketball.

If they were learning to bake a cake & had the opportunity, I wonder would they seek out the neighborhood lady (local) or Sara Lee (worldwide).

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

For violations this is really helpful to show visual learners or just to be able to have a discussion on the finer points of the rule.

As for fouls and judgement calls...
Couldn't you just show the clip and say that you want this play called a certain way? I wish that each of my assigners/conferences/leagues would tell me how they would want plays called instead of just hearing "We call it tight" or "We let them play here" or any other vague comment.

These videos can help create consistency.

PS Thanks APG!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

No problem at all. Even if the ruling may be different, the play presents the scenario either way.

I'd only consider it big timing of one of the official on the game was presenting the video.

It is highly unusual to get video from a high school game of sufficient quality and from varying angles to break down the play in the manner that can be done from an NCAA D1 game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

The same plays that we see at the college level, take place at the HS level. I use the videos to illustrate rules or judgments, not to promote college games. Often the college games and even NBA games have actual multiple angles and multiple replays. Most HS games are not on TV and when you do get a game on TV the angles are limited. I have used some personal videos, but the examples are not as clear. Also when you use college plays, usually no one is in the room that you are selling out. Some people have gotten upset when they are on the video and the way they screwed up is highlighted. College games often no one is on the game and we only know them by face, not personally. What better way to show multiple block/charge plays by TV games than a bad angle 100 feet away on a personal or team game tape? If people feel like you are big timing them, they really need to get over it. Most people learn by visual ways rather than debating what the words says. That is why what APG has added to this site has enhanced the discussions 10 fold to 10 years ago when all we could discuss was what we remember or what we thought we saw.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I don't want to hijack the thread, but this is something I would like everyone's opinion on.

Do you think videos like this, or of pro plays, are appropriate for high school meetings? I think basketball plays have worth no matter what level, but let's just say I have to be very careful about the plays I use during our high school meetings. Some people feel like it is "big timing" to use clips from a higher level.

I'll echo the others: we all learn from the video. If the H.S.-only officials had to wait for decent video of their games they might be waiting for a very long time. The goal is to take from the video what you need mainly because, as JRut pointed out, rules can be applied differently under different codes.

If anyone is feeling "big-timed" they need to learn to check their ego at the door. Besides, the people on those videos working at a higher level are doing it better...that's why they're at the higher level in the first place.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also when you use college plays, usually no one is in the room that you are selling out. Some people have gotten upset when they are on the video and the way they screwed up is highlighted.

JRut, I've been lucky enough to be in college meetings where the people on the video are in the room. Most, if not all, of them are very good about it and willing to discuss the situations afterwards which has been great. They were comfortable enough with themselves and their ability to realize no one is perfect. As long as no one is a jerk when asking them about a play or two they've been cool.

[Welpe]

Kudos to JetMetFan for all of the discussion provoking video he's been posting as well!

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Kudos to JetMetFan for all of the discussion provoking video he's been posting as well!

Gracias, Welpe. Little did I think the "T or no T" video would lead to five pages of comments!

[JugglingReferee]

Thanks, APG.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by jugglingreferee

thanks, apg.

+1

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

JRut, I've been lucky enough to be in college meetings where the people on the video are in the room. Most, if not all, of them are very good about it and willing to discuss the situations afterwards which has been great. They were comfortable enough with themselves and their ability to realize no one is perfect. As long as no one is a jerk when asking them about a play or two they've been cool.

I have been in the same situation and even last season was in the room and was sitting close to someone that was on the tape. He simply joked about his role on the video. But if you are on NCAA video, you are likely a top official in the first place.

Peace