Momentum OB

[Amesman]

Good points, all. Thanks.

In my estimation, my young guy raced to track down the ball that was heading OB, took a few dribbles (in control) yet couldn't stop his body from going OB so left the ball to do its thing while his body continued OB, stopped and came back to continue dribbling the ball -- never touching ball and OB simultaneously. There was no catching of it or turning it over with the palm, either, which was pretty skillful for this age.

I would have judged he had control with the two dribbles, just couldn't help himself from going OB. Not sure where that leaves it with JAR's last two possibilities (he had control of the ball, then didn't ...). Recognize the likely HTBT factor ...

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Good points, all. Thanks.

In my estimation, my young guy raced to track down the ball that was heading OB, took a few dribbles (in control) yet couldn't stop his body from going OB so left the ball to do its thing while his body continued OB, stopped and came back to continue dribbling the ball -- never touching ball and OB simultaneously. There was no catching of it or turning it over with the palm, either, which was pretty skillful for this age.

I would have judged he had control with the two dribbles, just couldn't help himself from going OB. Not sure where that leaves it with JAR's last two possibilities (he had control of the ball, then didn't ...). Recognize the likely HTBT factor ...

If you judge he had control of the dribble, then the second that he steps OB, whether by misjudgement of where the playing boundaries are, or by momentum, or other reason, it is a violation. That his hand wasn't at the time in contact with the ball is irrelevant.

The T shouldn't have said that someone else has to touch the ball.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Good points, all. Thanks.

In my estimation, my young guy raced to track down the ball that was heading OB, took a few dribbles (in control) yet couldn't stop his body from going OB so left the ball to do its thing while his body continued OB

This sounds like an interrupted dribble.

I would have judged he had control with the two dribbles, just couldn't help himself from going OB. Not sure where that leaves it with JAR's last two possibilities (he had control of the ball, then didn't ...). Recognize the likely HTBT factor ...

This does not.

HTBT I guess.

[just another ref]

In the OP, my first thought is that it wasn't a dribble. It seems unlikely that the kid sprinted back and gained control but was unable to control himself enough to stay inbounds.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by just another ref

In the OP, my first thought is that it wasn't a dribble. It seems unlikely that the kid sprinted back and gained control but was unable to control himself enough to stay inbounds.

Sure it does, his momentum would either have him travelling by grabbing ball and taking steps or as he decided to do......dribble. He then says whoa I can't dribble OOB, so I'll leave ball here only to return when he has control of himself

I can't believe there is even a discussion on what this is. Any other situation at any other area on the court and you have an easy travel(edit......OOB)

Think of dribbler on a fast break who leaves ball near basket as he can't stop only to run OOB, return to court grab ball and lay it in.......huh?

What it seems a few are saying is there are no court boundaries

[JetMetFan]

4-15-5

An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no player control during an interrupted dribble.

In the OP it does not sound as though the play met the first criterion for an ID since the ball didn't deflect off the dribbler. IMO it doesn't meet the second criterion either. The ball really didn't "get away" from the dribbler. It sounds more like the dribbler got away from the ball. WIthout seeing the play I'd say OOB was the correct call but as others said just not for the reason given.

[Adam]

Nothing says an interrupted dribble has to be involuntary. As a rule of thumb, I use two bounces. If the ball bounces twice between touches, I generally consider it interrupted.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nothing says an interrupted dribble has to be involuntary. As a rule of thumb, I use two bounces. If the ball bounces twice between touches, I generally consider it interrupted.

Good rule of thumb. Speaking of a rule of thumb, I had a retired official tell me last night that if, "the thumb goes up", that it's a carry (palming) violation. Any thoughts?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nothing says an interrupted dribble has to be involuntary. As a rule of thumb, I use two bounces. If the ball bounces twice between touches, I generally consider it interrupted.

I think we've recently had this discussion recently, but I do have to respectfully disagree. The definition of an interrupted dribble uses the terms "deflect" and "gets away" neither of which are voluntary actions of a dribbler. If a dribbler does something intentional with the ball he is controlling it and it is under his control.

However, I admit this makes the op a difficult case. As written this is an OOB violation. However, if instead of A1 recovering the ball, A2 recovers the ball, it would be a pass and not a dribble and therefore not a violation. That's a problem.

But likewise, the ability to interrupt a dribble at will causes problems (like allowing the dribbler to go OOB whenever he pleases so long as he convinces the referee that he's interrupted his dribble).