I have a few questions for the NCAA refs

[JetMetFan]

Regarding #2: Most of my supervisors/assignors say don't do it because if another whistle comes from somewhere it creates all sorts of problems. I was always told if a kid blocks a shot and I don't do anything, that tells everyone in the gym the play was legal. Some people still do it because they can't break the habit.

I'll duck #1 since I'm NCAAW and this sounds like an NCAAM sort of question. NCAAW are, IMO, a bit more stringent on screens because that game is played below the rim, so screens in general have a bigger effect.

[tref]

1. I think they tend to get the ones that matter most & talk em out of the marginal illegal screens.

2. I dont think of the gator chomp as a "mechanic" IMO its more of a signal to communicate with coaches/players non-verbally. I use it at any level I work to defuse pushback, but only AFTER the play is complete.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by tref

2. I dont think of the gator chomp as a "mechanic" IMO its more of a signal to communicate with coaches/players non-verbally. I use it at any level I work to defuse pushback, but only AFTER the play is complete.

I don't like it. No offense intended, but I believe it is a mechanic used to tell the fans and coaches to get off my back, it was a blocked shot and not a foul. The problem is when your partner calls a foul. Also, you don't know when the play is truly complete because your partner may be having a patient whistle and come a little late to get the foul. The fact that you did not call a foul tells everyone in the gym you thought it was a blocked shot. No need for this mechanic. It adds no additional information and it will likely one day cause you some grief because of your partner calling a foul. It probably hasn't happened yet, but there's a chance it will in the future.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rwest

I don't like it. No offense intended, but I believe it is a mechanic used to tell the fans and coaches to get off my back, it was a blocked shot and not a foul. The problem is when your partner calls a foul. Also, you don't know when the play is truly complete because your partner may be having a patient whistle and come a little late to get the foul. The fact that you did not call a foul tells everyone in the gym you thought it was a blocked shot. No need for this mechanic. It adds no additional information and it will likely one day cause you some grief because of your partner calling a foul. It probably hasn't happened yet, but there's a chance it will in the future.

If it isn't done until the ball is going the other way there's really no chance of a patient whistle coming in and creating an issue.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by groupthink

if it isn't done until the ball is going the other way there's really no chance of a patient whistle coming in and creating an issue.

Hey,

This screen name is not authorized!

This does not occur around here.

[tref]

Originally Posted by GROUPthink

If it isn't done until the ball is going the other way there's really no chance of a patient whistle coming in and creating an issue.

Yeah, I thought I stressed "after the play was complete."
I guess the people who dont like it either communicate verbally during live balls or ignore coaches. The people I work for dont condone either.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Yeah, I thought I stressed "after the play was complete."
I guess the people who dont like it either communicate verbally during live balls or ignore coaches. The people I work for dont condone either.

I don't like it, but it's because the partners I see using it do it during the play. They do it on plays in my primary.

I'm lead, shot goes up in our joint area towards the top of the lane, and the T (2 whistle) is giving the tip signal before the ball even hits the floor on a blocked shot. I've got no problem with it being used afterwards, by people who have a better sense of timing due to experience.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by tref

Yeah, I thought I stressed "after the play was complete."
I guess the people who dont like it either communicate verbally during live balls or ignore coaches. The people I work for dont condone either.

But I didn't understand it to mean when the ball is going the other way. If there is definitely no way that another official may whistle a foul on the play, then my main objection to it is irrelevant. However, at the high school level I see it more right after a shot is blocked. There is still a potential for a whistle. I guess its just one of those things we can disagree on. I don't like it and don't want younger officials getting into the habit. I guess you can argue that you are providing more information. You are saying you saw it and judged it was not a foul. However, my argument is that not calling the foul says the same thing.

[rwest]

I'm not condoning not addressing a coach. The times I see it the coach isn't yelling at the official. Now to be fair most of the time I'm seeing this is at a middle school or high school rec game. Although, one of the officials using it is a good young HS official. I'm just trying to get him out of the habit.

[tref]

Originally Posted by rwest

But I didn't understand it to mean when the ball is going the other way. If there is definitely no way that another official may whistle a foul on the play, then my main objection to it is irrelevant. However, at the high school level I see it more right after a shot is blocked. There is still a potential for a whistle. I guess its just one of those things we can disagree on. I don't like it and don't want younger officials getting into the habit. I guess you can argue that you are providing more information. You are saying you saw it and judged it was not a foul. However, my argument is that not calling the foul says the same thing.

I understand your point rwest. I didn't say "going the other way" because "after the play completes" is more accurate as we can have an offensive rebound that gets kicked back out to begin a new play on the same end.
I used to have that mindset, but what I noticed is that the great communicators of the game are generally the most successful.

[JRutledge]

1. I am with BNR on this one. I see more calls in NCAA games than I do in HS period, not just on illegal screens.

2. I have used it and do not use it immediately during a blocked shot. I use it to sell a held ball or when we are going in the other direction. It is rarely used by me, but I do use it on some level.

Peace

[APG]

Timing is important in using the signal...for the most part, you don't see officials using the signal right as the action is finishing...there's usually a delay to accommodate for the fact that there might be a whistle from someone's secondary. Of course, if your partner(s) come in any later than that, there's gonna be an issue anyhow with the opposing coach.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the signal when used correctly. It's just another means of giving additional information that can help with coaches/players.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Regarding #2: Most of my supervisors/assignors say don't do it because if another whistle comes from somewhere it creates all sorts of problems. I was always told if a kid blocks a shot and I don't do anything, that tells everyone in the gym the play was legal. Some people still do it because they can't break the habit.

I'll duck #1 since I'm NCAAW and this sounds like an NCAAM sort of question. NCAAW are, IMO, a bit more stringent on screens because that game is played below the rim, so screens in general have a bigger effect.

I'm guessing that this 'signal' is delayed by lead and after smoke clears, no whistles, he's good to go. At D1 you're obviously at a top level and partners know this and can work in sync.

It's a gasoline can near a fire for high school, there is no need what so ever to do this and can only lead to trouble. I haven't seen it much in my games, but it does crop up in kids games from less experienced officials.

To tag onto your OP, what is the 'signal' I've seen on a close play, typically by lead again I believe, where it appears to be a variation of a stop sign as official doesn't want to hear any commentary on a passed call?

[Jeremy Hohn]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Regarding #2: Most of my supervisors/assignors say don't do it because if another whistle comes from somewhere it creates all sorts of problems. I was always told if a kid blocks a shot and I don't do anything, that tells everyone in the gym the play was legal. Some people still do it because they can't break the habit.

I'll duck #1 since I'm NCAAW and this sounds like an NCAAM sort of question. NCAAW are, IMO, a bit more stringent on screens because that game is played below the rim, so screens in general have a bigger effect.

I work the Women's side and concur with the above...