Chicago Area Sectionals 3A and 4A

[dsqrddgd909]

Went to two games this week while traveling on business in Chicago.

Trying to understand what it takes to officiate high level Boys V.

I saw a few things which I had questions about (with the proviso that I'm still a newer official and could not see what the refs saw):

1. Saw quite a bit of uncalled hand checking far away from the basket. I know it's a POE in Kansas this year. My question for the vets is how do you know when to call it?

2. Post play roughness. First game, I saw perhaps 5-6 instances when something should have been called. Again, how do you vets decide?

Couple of other things:
A. Gyms were as loud as any I've ever been in. Could never hear the horn.

B. Second game, one official was the spitting image of this guy.

He also had a large splint and wrap on his left arm.

[Toren]

I've been doing Varsity ball for a couple of years, so I may not be the veteran that you are looking for, but here goes anyway

Hand-checking is generally pregamed: I've heard some of the crew chiefs say, "we're going to call anything that is two hands automatically", or "if they have that hand on their more than a couple of seconds we're calling it".

So while it may have been viewed as hand-checking the calling official may have decided it didn't disrupt the offensive player enough to warrant a call. At this time of year, I think some officials are trying to make only the calls that are substantial and needed. A couple of "ticky-tack' calls could put a star player on the bench and cost a team a chance for a championship.

That's a philosophical argument though.

Same with rough play: I have seen and I'm sure a lot of high school officials can agree that a lot of times, the offense is initiated a lot of contact and consequently we don't penalize the defense for the physical play. So we no call it.

Of course, without seeing the games, it's hard to say. but those are my general thoughts.

[JetMetFan]

The NFHS puts this out pretty much every year so obviously they don't feel we're getting right as often as we should. If we get them early, the kids figure it out. If they don't figure it out, they sit. Most figure it out.

A. Handchecking/Body Fouls.

1.Tactics using the hands, arms or body that permit any player (offense or defense) to "control" (hold, impede, push, divert, slow or prevent) the movement of an opposing player is a foul.
2.When an offensive player uses the hands or body to push off for position or spacing to get open or receive a pass, or to move the ball via pass or dribble, it is a foul.
3."Hooking" by an offensive player is a distinct advantage. This tactic is not worthy of a warning and should be ruled a foul without hesitation.
4.Any illegal use of hands, arms or body (offense or defense) that slows, prevents, impedes the progress or displaces an opposing player due to the contact, is a foul and must be called.
5.Regardless of where it takes place on the court, when a player continuously places a hand on the ball handler/dribbler, it is a foul.
6.When a player jabs a hand(s) or forearm on an opponent to control his or her movement or gain an advantage, it is a foul.

My main thing is keep a defender's hands off the dribbler as much as possible. Once the kids realize that's what's being called, they adjust and IMO the game is much cleaner.

[truerookie]

This is the bottom line. The officials you see on the court are mainly college officials. They are the ones chosen a high percentage of the time to officiate state tournanment games.

The work just enough game to be considered for the post season.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by truerookie

The officials you see on the court are manly college officials.

That's a good thing. I'd hate for them to act feminine, unless they were women, of course.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by truerookie

This is the bottom line. The officials you see on the court are mainly college officials. They are the ones chosen a high percentage of the time to officiate state tournanment games.

The work just enough game to be considered for the post season.

Not really in Illinois.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by truerookie

This is the bottom line. The officials you see on the court are manly college officials. They are the ones chosen a high percentage of the time to officiate state tournanment games.

The work just enough game to be considered for the post season.

I don't think that blanket statement works in IL. Most officials that work late in the state tournament have worked enough both in the regular season and in past seasons to establish a good reputation and ranking. Also, on the flip side, as officials rise in the college ranks they are discouraged from working lower levels such as HS. There may be some officials in the state tournament that have also worked at the college level, but the state selection process and rankings do not include any mention of being able to work at higher levels.

[JRutledge]

I can tell you with great confidence that most officials in Illinois that work the Boy's 3A or 4A players at the Sectional level are not "college officials." Knowing many of them personally in this area for sure, most work almost no college at all. And most lower level college officials work some level of high school in their schedule.

Also what kind of bothers me is when people make the claim about what is appropriate for "high school." The game is essentially the same. Actually I find that college officials call more than a high school only official because we have more philosophies that are followed for things to be called. I hear more high school officials trying to justify not calling "hand checking" than I ever hear a college official do. At the college level if you attend camps of any kind and listen to the NCAA tapes, there are many things they want us to call and "absolutes" are one of those reasons.

Most of all when the teams get to this level of the playoff, these are the good teams or teams that deserve to get to that level most often. So you might have teams being able to play through some contact that will not happen during the regular season. Kind of like was said, "This is big boy basketball" now. That being said if anyone would have come to my game on Tuesday, we called a lot of fouls to the point we were it the double bonus for at least one team both halves. And two of us were college officials. A lot of what you call is totally dictated by the teams you have. Heck if the put the ball on the hole most of the time we do not have to call fouls at all.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Went to two games this week while traveling on business in Chicago.

Trying to understand what it takes to officiate high level Boys V.

I saw a few things which I had questions about (with the proviso that I'm still a newer official and could not see what the refs saw):

1. Saw quite a bit of uncalled hand checking far away from the basket. I know it's a POE in Kansas this year. My question for the vets is how do you know when to call it?

2. Post play roughness. First game, I saw perhaps 5-6 instances when something should have been called. Again, how do you vets decide?

Couple of other things:
A. Gyms were as loud as any I've ever been in. Could never hear the horn.

B. Second game, one official was the spitting image of this guy.

He also had a large splint and wrap on his left arm.

It's called big boy basketball, especially with city teams

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Went to two games this week while traveling on business in Chicago.

Trying to understand what it takes to officiate high level Boys V.

I saw a few things which I had questions about (with the proviso that I'm still a newer official and could not see what the refs saw):

1. Saw quite a bit of uncalled hand checking far away from the basket. I know it's a POE in Kansas this year. My question for the vets is how do you know when to call it?

2. Post play roughness. First game, I saw perhaps 5-6 instances when something should have been called. Again, how do you vets decide?

Couple of other things:
A. Gyms were as loud as any I've ever been in. Could never hear the horn.

B. Second game, one official was the spitting image of this guy.

He also had a large splint and wrap on his left arm.

Where was the game or opponents??

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Where was the game or opponents??

1. Glenbard South: Crane vs. Wheaton-St. Franicis

2. Argo-Summit: Bogan vs. Marist

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

1. Glenbard South: Crane vs. Wheaton-St. Franicis

2. Argo-Summit: Bogan vs. Marist

That explains some of it, the style of play of Bogan and Crane are both teams from the city and very athletic and pressure. Both Wheaton and Marist play in leagues that are often very physical as well and the teams are often more know for football. I had Wheaton in the Regional Championship and they beat another Chicago team for that title (game before the one you listed) in a low scoring affair. Wheaton appears to not be afraid of anyone and I am not surprised they won last night.

Peace

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

1. Glenbard South: Crane vs. Wheaton-St. Franicis

2. Argo-Summit: Bogan vs. Marist

Ha Ha I reffed with guy you mentioned earlier this season. I see a little resemblance.

He was about 5'7??

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Ha Ha I reffed with guy you mentioned earlier this season. I see a little resemblance.

He was about 5'7??

That's him.

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

Went to two games this week while traveling on business in Chicago.

If you saw the Simeon v Whitney Young game on Tue. at Argo HS, then you saw 11 D1 prospects on the floor with Coach K, Thad Matta, Tom Izzo, Bruce Webber, and the Mayor of Chicago (among others) in the house.....

In that game, your not blowing the whistle unless it was a "must get" foul. Your typical "high school foul" occurred every 4-5 seconds...pass on those and get the ones that matter.

btw, your picture of the official in question was spot on....hahahaha