Play from IHSAA Sectionals...

[Coltdoggs]

Pulled this from my local paper's website messageboard...found the conversation interesting and got me disecting the play...the topic was actually about a Purdue recruit DJ Byrd and it turned into some "refs were horrible" and then this go posted so I thought I'd bring it here for some discussion...

One of the guys stated...

The play at the end of the game was really messed up. NM scored with 5.2 seconds left in the game and had no time outs, so a NM player knocked the ball away when it went thru the basket and it went high in the air against the back wall and one of the refs blew his whistle and STOPPED the clock with 2.2 seconds left (this should of been a T for delay of game) or they should of let the clock run out since Danville did not have to throw the ball in. Danville then throw the ball away on the sideline with no one touching it and NM get's the ball under their basket and shoots a 3 point shot to win the game. Thank goodness Byrd missed because this would of been the biggest robbery I have ever witnessed.

I responded to the poster with this...

Wasn't at the game, but chiming in anyhow...

If this was the first time NM did this after a made basket, the ref did exactly what he should have done. Stop play, issue delay warning. It's not an automatic T....If they had an earlier delay warning, then yes this one should have been a T. Sounds like it was the first one.

As for the ball going OOB from endline to sideline and not touching a player on the floor...Correct again...ball goes back to original throw in location. He could have thrown it the length of the court and it go OOB on the opposite baseline and it would have come all the way back.

He then stated....

Time would of run out with Danville not having to throw the ball in. You can't let a team gain a advantage by stopping the clock in this situation. The right thing to do would just let the clock run out.


To which I replied...
I'm not saying that it shouldn't be handled that way with only 5.2 left...that's actually pretty good game management that a ref should take into account and IMO knowing that the team that is up at this juncture could use up a few seconds before actually taking control of the ball under 5 seconds and then not have to inbound it....

I don't know when the Danville player got control of the ball OOB or when the official started his 5 second count...I can say that it generally takes 2-3 seconds, sometimes more.....You said he scored with 5.2 and the subsequent whistle for delay was at 2.2...seems to me that whistle should have happened sooner or immediately when the ball was slapped which IMO would have to have been under 5 seconds...sounds as if his action caused the ball to bounce around...

What I am saying though is that players are not supposed to strike the ball as it comes through the net and the official has the obligation to stop the clock and issue a delay warning if they deem it deliberate or if the action causes the ball to go wild (as it may have done in this play)

Sounds to me like a smart play by the Danville kid trying to get them to inbound so they could steal or foul...

How bout this scenario....We could flip the teams and it's the team that is down needing to inbound and the delay violation occurs allowing the team ahead to set up a full court press...another advantage gained...

See how much fun officiating and disecting plays can be....Again, I like your thinking but I'd have to have seen everything transpire to give a better interp of it. Only the ref that whislted it can tell us for sure...


So...Your thoughts as you disect this one...

[tjones1]

9.2.10

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Coltdoggs

So...Your thoughts as you disect this one...

My thoughts are that you are wrong and the fan is correct.

In situations with the clock running and five or less seconds left in the game, a throw-in plane violation or interfering with the ball following a goal should be ignored if its only purpose is to stop the clock. However, if the tactic in any way interferes with the thrower's efforts to make a throw-in, a technical foul for delay shall be called even though no previous warning had been issued. In this situation, if the official stopped the clock and issued a team warning, it would allow the team to benefit from the tactic.

You make a decision to either ignore the ball being batted or you whistle the T.

[lpbreeze]

perhaps in the first half a delay would be fine but in the situation they described it should have been a T

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

My thoughts are that you are wrong and the fan is correct.

In situations with the clock running and five or less seconds left in the game, a throw-in plane violation or interfering with the ball following a goal should be ignored if its only purpose is to stop the clock. However, if the tactic in any way interferes with the thrower's efforts to make a throw-in, a technical foul for delay shall be called even though no previous warning had been issued. In this situation, if the official stopped the clock and issued a team warning, it would allow the team to benefit from the tactic.

You make a decision to either ignore the ball being batted or you whistle the T.

Fair enough.....I might have committed myself in my opening remark but I did go on and offer some thoughts about it...I was not aware we could move straight to T in this situation, so I learned something tonight....

Having said that, I think I would have ignored the action knowing it was under 5 seconds and the team leading did not have to inbound the ball before the clock ran out...

[tjones1]

I wouldn't assume the leading team is going to hold the ball. Penalize accordingly with a T.

[Jesse James]

Patient whistle-let the clock run if at all possible. If Danville's making no effort to retrieve under 0:05 , or retrieves and just holds it, don't help NM by stopping the clock, even with a T. If Danville retrieves and looks like they're coming inbounds with it, then go with the T.

[Moshiner1345]

I was at this game, and I was actually sitting under NM's basket when this situation occurred. After North's made basket, the ball bounced on the ground and Danville wasn't attempting to pick up the ball. A NM player then hit the ball really high into the air. Once the calling official blew his whistle, he got together with the other two officials and the call was reported as a delay of game. It was North's first delay of game for the game. I spoke with the officials after the game, and as a crew they decided to call the delay of game instead of assessing a T. But they did consider it.

A little background of the game, I'm not sure who was calling the officials horrible (a NM fan or a Danville fan) but I think the game was officiated very well. Danville was up 15 at one point in the 4th quarter. They simply couldn't handle the press and threw the ball away several times. Then they also couldn't hit their free throws when they did go to the line. Overall the three guys did excellent. One of them you all have seen officiate on Sunday's in the NFL.

[Jesse James]

Originally Posted by Moshiner1345

I was at this game, and I was actually sitting under NM's basket when this situation occurred. After North's made basket, the ball bounced on the ground and Danville wasn't attempting to pick up the ball. A NM player then hit the ball really high into the air. Once the calling official blew his whistle, he got together with the other two officials and the call was reported as a delay of game. It was North's first delay of game for the game. I spoke with the officials after the game, and as a crew they decided to call the delay of game instead of assessing a T. But they did consider it.

A little background of the game, I'm not sure who was calling the officials horrible (a NM fan or a Danville fan) but I think the game was officiated very well. Danville was up 15 at one point in the 4th quarter. They simply couldn't handle the press and threw the ball away several times. Then they also couldn't hit their free throws when they did go to the line. Overall the three guys did excellent. One of them you all have seen officiate on Sunday's in the NFL.

What was their rationalization for going with the delay of game warning?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jesse James

What was their rationalization for going with the delay of game warning?

They weren't aware of case play 9.2.10.

Once he blew his whistle and stopped the clock, he should have gone with the T.

[Nevadaref]

Colt, You guys might know each other. This was just posted a few days ago in another thread on the forum. Sounds like the same play from the same game.

Originally Posted by TonyT

I saw a similar play Fri. in HS Tourney game

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Team A was out of time outs and made a basket with 5.2 seconds left to trail by 2 points. A player on team A hit the ball when it went thru the basket it went high in the air and hit off the back wall. One of the refs blew his whistle and stopped play with 2.2 seconds left(the game is basically over because team B doesn't even have to throw the ball in play as time is going to run out) ( I think a delay of game technical should of been called or just let the clock run out) Now the fun begins because when team B throws the ball in play after the clock was stopped and threw it away on the sideline with no one touching the ball. Now team A gets the ball under their own basket with 2.2 seconds to go with a chance to tie or win the game. Team A throws the ball in and gets off a 3 point shot that misses and Team B escapes. If that 3 point shot had of went in I bet World War 3 would of started.

[Coltdoggs]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Colt, You guys might know each other. This was just posted a few days ago in another thread on the forum. Sounds like the same play from the same game.

Not sure if I know Tony T but that sounds like the same play...

As fate would have it, Regionals are this weekend and Indy is supposed to get dumped on with snow! This always seems to happen around Regional time here!