Any call?

[bigda65]

Im a frequent visitor and am not privvy to any rulebooks. Saw this sit at a wreck league game yesterday and was curious.

Player goes up for a try. Defender comes in and the player brings the ball down to around his waist, and drops the ball just before he landed.

Before the player touched the ball again the official called a travel.

Im pretty sure that travel was not the correct call at that instant.

Whether this matters or not, the player did not push the ball down toward the court to begin a dribble. He had his hands on each side of the ball and dropped it.

Can the player continue on with a dribble?

[muxbule]

As I understand the OP it is a violation. Once the pivot foot leaves the floor the player may only shoot or pass. Dropping the ball constitutes a traveling violation. Someone else will be along and give you the rule citation and quote it for you.

[JetMetFan]

NFHS 4-44-3

After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a *dribble.

and

NCAA 4-72-4
After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
b. The pivot foot shall not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble.

[mbyron]

It's a travel only if dropping the ball starts a dribble. But it's not a dribble until he touches the ball again: until then, it might be a pass, which is legal. Too soon to whistle the violation.

[Indianaref]

Official was wrong, I've got nothing on this play. Player dropped ball while both feet are off the ground. Now if he were the first to touch the ball after dropping it, we would then have a violation.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

It's a travel only if dropping the ball starts a dribble. But it's not a dribble until he touches the ball again: until then, it might be a pass, which is legal. Too soon to whistle the violation.

AS the OP is described, I agree. But, if the official judged the player didn't drop the ball until he returned to the floor, or judged that the player pushed the ball down to start a dribble, ...

[bigda65]

Bob,

The ball was dropped while still in the air without a doubt.

I talked to the official after the game, he thought it was a violation for dropping the ball.

So next ?
Violation if he tries to start a dribble after jumping

I will edit to add,

READ THE RULE DUMMY, I see the answer to my question........ no wonder you guys get so aggravated

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by bigda65

READ THE RULE DUMMY, I see the answer to my question........ no wonder you guys get so aggravated

Us, aggravated? Shocked I tell ya! Shocked I am!

[Adam]

Dropping it could be a pass or dribble. I'd wait to see what happens next before whistling.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

It's a travel only if dropping the ball starts a dribble. But it's not a dribble until he touches the ball again: until then, it might be a pass, which is legal. Too soon to whistle the violation.

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

We've had this argument a couple of times, and I was the only one on this side of the argument.

[Rob1968]

The only way to know if it is a start of a dribble, is if it bounces from the floor back up to the ballhandler, without touching or being touched by another player.
Think of a player intercepting a pass, in his backcourt, and with a clear path to his basket, he throws, bats, pushes the ball, way out in front of him, to start the dribble. He may take several steps, before contacting the ball, again. When he does get to the ball, if he bats the ball to the floor, it's a dribble. If he catches the ball, it's the end of the dribble. If another player gets to the ball, first, it's just a pass, or an itercepted pass/turnover.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The rule says otherwise.

4-15-1

A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once OR several times.

He does not have to touch the ball a second time for it to be considered a dribble.

As an official, you have to make a judgment as to whether it was a dribble or a pass. In this situation, where he is obviously trying to avoid returning to the floor with the ball, in my judgment I have the start of a dribble. I've yet to ever see a player make a pass to a teammate by dropping the ball at his own feet.

Other than Meadowlark Lemon, of course.

[bigda65]

Originally Posted by just another ref

We've had this argument a couple of times, and I was the only one on this side of the argument.

So what was the verdict - 2 against the world, or is it truely the start of a dribble?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bigda65

So what was the verdict - 2 against the world, or is it truely the start of a dribble?

No verdict, but I agree with Tony. The official must judge it. Sometimes, that judgement is delayed (or changed) to see what else happens. Sometimes, it's instantaneous.