Rsbq

[tref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The stated reason NCAAW adopted the RA was NOT "because it's not a valid defensive tactic" but "to increase scoring". So, I'd say they thought it was "too good" of a defensive tactic.

Whatever the reason is, how many people are buying tickets to see the p/c call or good defense?
People are coming out to basketball games to see the scoring, particularly the high flying dunks.
Defenders taking charges at the rack is quite dangerous to airborne athletes.

If I didnt want to see points scored when I'm working, I could just go do baseball

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nothing you can do or say right now is going to prevent me from going to Ohio this weekend; because I'm not trying.

That's not quite the concept of prevention: otherwise, it would be impossible to prevent measles in someone who wasn't trying to catch it.

The concept you want here is not prevention but obstruction or hindrance, which does require an effort and an opposition.

And anyway, you might not be trying to go to Ohio this weekend, but you know you want to!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It might make it easier in this instance, but I don't like the idea of taking away this defensive tactic. I know some (you included) think it's not a legitimate tactic, but I think it's a fair strategy to take away the shooter's path to force him to take a different shot than he wants.

Besides, then you have to learn to identify secondary vs primary defenders as well as other aspects of the rule that determine whether it applies.

Snaqs:

I agree with you 100%.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The stated reason NCAAW adopted the RA was NOT "because it's not a valid defensive tactic" but "to increase scoring". So, I'd say they thought it was "too good" of a defensive tactic.

The NCAA reason for adopting the RA proves that the people who adopted it do not have a clue as to the rules of basketball concerning LGP.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I disagree, B1 can't prevent an opponent from doing something he isn't attempting to do. Nothing you can do or say right now is going to prevent me from going to Ohio this weekend; because I'm not trying.

Snaqs:

Why would you want to come to Ohio this weekend. It is cold and dreary. I should think that you would prefer a place like Hawaii or the U.S. Virgin Islands.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Its hard enough to get people to call a PC foul around here. We don't need to give them another out.

I agree. It is same up here in NW Ohio.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's not quite the concept of prevention: otherwise, it would be impossible to prevent measles in someone who wasn't trying to catch it.

The concept you want here is not prevention but obstruction or hindrance, which does require an effort and an opposition.

And anyway, you might not be trying to go to Ohio this weekend, but you know you want to!

You sound like Sheldon Cooper, Ph.D.

MTD, Sr.

[Art N]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am puzzled by how many people think it is okay to bail out V2 for making illegal contact with H1 when the illegal contact is the result of V2 playing out of control.

Once again, the key is H1 was prevented from standing upright within his Cylinder of Verticality by V2's illegal contact. We do not have to have H1 attempt to stand upright, V2's contact prevented H1 from standing upright.

MTD, Sr.

Mark etal...
What if we have the same play occurring at the offensive end of the floor? Assume A1 beats his man B1 and stops for shot right under the basket. B5 is trying to help out, so he sprints over just as A1 gives a great head fake and sends our superhero, B5 flying by at which point his hand contacts A1 back while he bend over. A1 waits for B5 to fly by, then hits a bunny shot for two. Mark you said it was automatic for you on the OP, so should I assume you are calling it when B5 contacts A1's back in this example too?

[Art N]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

You sound like Sheldon Cooper, Ph.D.

MTD, Sr.

That is perfect! (just like Sheldon Cooper!)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

H1 bent over to pick up a loose ball. I willing to bet dollars to donuts that the first thing he would do is stand upright. I seriously doubt he would hike the ball through his legs to a teammate (even though I did see this happen in a girls' game once, ). The point is that V2 violated H1's CV and made contact with H1 that prevented him from standing upright.


A better example would be this play:

A1 dives for a loose ball and gains control of the ball while laying prone on his stomach on the floor. From this postion A1 can roll (this would be considered a pass by rule) to A2 who is standing a few feet in frong of him. B1 who was trying to out race A1 to the ball lands on top of A1 but this contact does not prevent A1 from rolling the ball to A2, which he does almost immediately after B1 lands on A1. Foul on B1 or not?

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I have to get ready for a game with Mark, Jr., tonight. Have a good evening guys and gals.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Art N

Mark etal...
What if we have the same play occurring at the offensive end of the floor? Assume A1 beats his man B1 and stops for shot right under the basket. B5 is trying to help out, so he sprints over just as A1 gives a great head fake and sends our superhero, B5 flying by at which point his hand contacts A1 back while he bend over. A1 waits for B5 to fly by, then hits a bunny shot for two. Mark you said it was automatic for you on the OP, so should I assume you are calling it when B5 contacts A1's back in this example too?

Art N:

Yes, but it is not a foul in the Act of Shooting. It is a Common Foul.

MTD, Sr.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Art N:

Yes, but it is not a foul in the Act of Shooting. It is a Common Foul.

MTD, Sr.

The ol' "nice move kid & great head fake as well, now take it out & try it again" call?

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

A better example would be this play:

A1 dives for a loose ball and gains control of the ball while laying prone on his stomach on the floor. From this postion A1 can roll (this would be considered a pass by rule) to A2 who is standing a few feet in frong of him. B1 who was trying to out race A1 to the ball lands on top of A1 but this contact does not prevent A1 from rolling the ball to A2, which he does almost immediately after B1 lands on A1. Foul on B1 or not?

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I have to get ready for a game with Mark, Jr., tonight. Have a good evening guys and gals.

Well, seeing how B1 landed ON top of A1 I have a foul. This play is much different than 2 hands in the back of A1. Sometimes the contact is so egregious that we cant overlook it.

Have a great game tonight!!

[APG]

I really feel you must be envisioning a different play than everyone else MTD.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Besides, then you have to learn to identify secondary vs primary defenders as well as other aspects of the rule that determine whether it applies.

There it is.

When you consider the pools of college vs. high school officials -- and their corresponding experience -- I think you're going to find it much tougher for high school officials to identify a secondary defender, especially considering there is no such definition.

I still don't see the point of the RA, anyway. If you obtain LGP after the shooter leaves the floor, by rule, it's a block.

[APG]

Originally Posted by bainsey

There it is.

When you consider the pools of college vs. high school officials -- and their corresponding experience -- I think you're going to find it much tougher for high school officials to identify a secondary defender, especially considering there is no such definition.

I still don't see the point of the RA, anyway. If you obtain LGP after the shooter leaves the floor, by rule, it's a block.

If you're the off ball official, especially in 3-man, you're already identifying primary and secondary defenders...especially when dealing with block/charge plays and who takes the play in cases of double whistle...at the high school level (in fact at all levels).

And I'm quite sure if/when the rule is ever implemented, NFHS will define primary and secondary defenders.