Backcourt Violation Question

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

A2 doesn't need to gain player control for the violation.

Team control is already in place. B2's touch establishes FC status. A2's initial touch is still in the FC. When his dribble hits the BC, it's a violation.

Are you sure about that?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Are you sure about that?

I debated this when I typed it, and figured someone would question it. I'm not positive, but under the principal that a dribbler is OOB when he steps on the OOB line even if it's not at the same moment he's in contact with the ball, I think so. I see it as continuous control, just like the OOB play.

That said, you really don't know it's a dribble until he touches it again, so in practice, it won't be called until he touches it after that bounce.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I debated this when I typed it, and figured someone would question it. I'm not positive, but under the principal that a dribbler is OOB when he steps on the OOB line even if it's not at the same moment he's in contact with the ball, I think so. I see it as continuous control, just like the OOB play.

That said, you really don't know it's a dribble until he touches it again, so in practice, it won't be called until he touches it after that bounce.

One huge difference in the out of bounds play and the backcourt play.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I debated this when I typed it, and figured someone would question it. I'm not positive, but under the principal that a dribbler is OOB when he steps on the OOB line even if it's not at the same moment he's in contact with the ball, I think so. I see it as continuous control, just like the OOB play.

That said, you really don't know it's a dribble until he touches it again, so in practice, it won't be called until he touches it after that bounce.

You're now going the same direction as I'm thinking.

The backcourt rule has no dependence on player control. It is not a violation to cause the ball to be in the backcourt at any time (with or without player control). It only depends on being the first to touch the ball after it has gone to the backcourt (assuming the other criteria have already been met). That would be when the dribble returned to the hand.

On a related situation....what if a PLAYER stepped on the division line between dribbles, then, resumes contact only with the FC before dribbling again. Does the ball ever gain backcourt status?

Refer to the definition of ball location (Rule 4-4). Rule 9-3-1 NOTE makes it a violation for a dribbler to step OOB but I don't see anywhere that says the concept applies to the division line. Does it? By the letter of the rules, it seems that the ball is only in the backcourt when it is actually in contact the backcourt directly or with a player who currently has backcourt status by either being in contact with the backcourt or being airborne having jumped from the backcourt).

By practice and common sense, I feel the OOB NOTE probably should apply to the division line as well, but I don't think the rules, as written, necessarily support that.