BYU/St. Mary's

[Adam]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Personally, I don't care if anyone ridicules my beliefs. I have enough confidence and conviction in what I believe in that it does not matter to me. But I'm less sensitive and less easily offended than most.

I only used ridicule because that is the word Snaqs used. More appropriate terms would probably be criticize or question.

I question the policy; but the way it was brought up by Rut in this thread qualifies as gratuitous ridicule, IMO.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I think mocking someone else's religious beliefs is silly, no matter how outlandish you may think they are. If you want to disagree with someone, that's just fine when you do it in a mature way.

Most religious beliefs seem outlandish from the point of view of other religions. That is the nature of religion. Most of what most religions believe is of the same, but different, nature.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I only used ridicule because that is the word Snaqs used. More appropriate terms would probably be criticize or question.

Well, words matter. There's a world of difference between criticize, question and ridicule.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Well, words matter. There's a world of difference between criticize, question and ridicule.

Words do matter and please show me anywhere in this thread where someone's beliefs were ridiculed.

And I actually feel strongly enough about some people's beliefs that I think they are worthy of even ridicule. If that makes me silly in some people's eyes so be it. Some of the things that people "believe in" makes them silly in mine.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I did see the piece. I still take issue with any sort of "statistics" claiming that black athletes are suspended at a higher rate for honor code violations than white athletes.

I take issue with it because there's no way to even have that information. BYU doesn't release that kind of information, so they're going off a bunch of interviews with former players. Hardly seems scientific at all. And so it really is all hearsay, which is fine. Let's just not pretend that the opinions being formed in this thread about BYU's Honor Code practices are somehow based on fact. They're not. They're based on innuendo.

I did not make the claim about this policy really, I said that if they are going to be worried about something they should worry about suspending kids for actions with the honor code, not a fan and their actions. That was a joke and just like people make jokes about other religious institutions for their lack of consistency or hypocrisy they show as well. As an official usually the most profane or out of control individuals I see come from the religious schools. So yes their policies can and will be questioned. That being said I think there was a little more to the ESPN story than hearsay. Just like a source gives a reporter some information as to some data that they have access to. The story was a little more than someone giving what they thought.

Originally Posted by fiasco

One of the biggest issues here is that Brandon Davies confessed what he had done to his coach and, IIRC, his ecclesiastical leader. Of course there are going to be a lot of students (white or not, athlete or not) who get away with stuff, because they don't do what Davies had the conviction to do -- admit that he had broken the Honor Code to his leader. Making an apples-to-apples comparison of the Davies case and those kinds of people who intentionally break the rules and try to get away with it and saying there's some sort of injustice going on is just plain stupid.

Yes he did confess, but there was also a part of the report that he was accused of doing this based on some other information. Also it was said that there were people trying to "catch" students in violation and having fellow students tell on each other. He did confess, but it was said he was hounded to find a violation. And it does appear that there are some reports they do not apply the rule evenly. I do not claim to know, but if any of that is true then they have the right to be criticized for their policy and application of that policy. Just like any other issue would be up for scrutiny at any other institution, public or private.

Peace

[Adam]

Apparently they deserve to be criticized even if any of it might be true.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Words do matter and please show me anywhere in this thread where someone's beliefs were ridiculed.

Why would I have any need to do that since I've never said anyone's beliefs were ridiculed?

I'm merely responding to your statement that it's acceptable practice to ridicule someone else's beliefs.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That being said I think there was a little more to the ESPN story than hearsay.

Like what?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Why would I have any need to do that since I've never said anyone's beliefs were ridiculed?

I'm merely responding to your statement that it's acceptable practice to ridicule someone else's beliefs.

You don't need to do anything. I simply asked b/c you see to be on a soap box about ridiculing people's beliefs here and I was curious as to whether you, like Snaqs, thought that had been done in this thread.

For the record, and before this thing gets locked, I stand by my original statement. IMO it is acceptable practice to ridicule certain beliefs, even those that are religious in nature, given the right place and time.

Many, if not most, will disagree. I don't care.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Like what?

There were documents referenced as well as school officials that wished not to be identified. If you watch Outside the Lines often, this is typical of how investigated stories are conducted with people on the inside making claims of information they are privy to a policy or information. Not everyone is going to give a face to face interview and let it be known they have a opposition to a policy or its application. It has been awhile so maybe I can find some information to highlight this, but the story from Deadspin was not the only place where this was claimed about their policy. Now you do not have to accept this, but like many institutions there are things they might be inconsistent with in application and probably have people around that point these things out to the administration. Just because you do not agree with it does not make it untrue either.

Peace