Judging a "judgement" call

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Exactly so don't go giving him more ammunition by telling a coach your partner was wrong.

The coach already knows he was wrong...What do you do? Play stupid as well?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by deecee

The coach already knows he was wrong...What do you do? Play stupid as well?

Maybe but I'm not going to agree with him! That's a good way to make a name for yourself amongst your fellow officials especially if you know enough about the call but don't go in and provide help to your partner to get it right.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Maybe but I'm not going to agree with him! That's a good way to make a name for yourself amongst your fellow officials especially if you know enough about the call but don't go in and provide help to your partner to get it right.

You are incorrect sir. And what name would I be making. Let's look at the facts.

1. Partner makes an incorrect traveling call, that I had assumed was NOT for the reason he made it. Basically I assumed he actually HAD a traveling.

2. Coach asks him and partner tells coach incorrect rule. Coach calls him and partner tells coach he is wrong.

3. Coach asks me rules question. Coach is right on the rule. I agree with the coach. Therefore partner is incorrect (I still DIDN'T know the exact reason for the traveling).

4. If coach tells me what partner says (and it happens to be incorrect and opposite of what I just agreed with) I would tell coach I will talk with partner but it's obvious he is incorrect.

So if this gives me a "bad" name with other officials. Then I would say they can go F themselves. You cannot be wrong in life and NOT own up to it AND blame someone else for your mistake.

Your partner did all the damage he/she could. Playing dumb shows no integrity on your part. The right thing to do is say, "Yup coach you are right and I will talk with my partner." First chance I get I would discuss this. Hopefully he's receptive and he acknowledges his mistake and owns up and apologizes to the coach at some point for the screw up. To me that's the right thing to do.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by deecee

You are incorrect sir.

Well that's your opinion and I think yours is incorrect.

4. If coach tells me what partner says (and it happens to be incorrect and opposite of what I just agreed with) I would tell coach I will talk with partner but it's obvious he is incorrect.

Here's where you start running into trouble when you start telling the coach your partner is wrong. What do you gain by that? That's throwing your partner under the bus and is completely unecessary.

So if this gives me a "bad" name with other officials. Then I would say they can go F themselves.

Great attitude.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Well that's your opinion and I think yours is incorrect.



Here's where you start running into trouble when you start telling the coach your partner is wrong. What do you gain by that? That's throwing your partner under the bus and is completely unecessary.



Great attitude.

Welpe, what, in your opinion, is required to not "throw your partner under the bus?" It seems to me that anything short of telling the coach that grabbing your own rebound is travelling is, by your definition, throwing your partner under the bus.

Telling the coach what a rule is after it's been misapplied doesn't throw your partner under the bus; he put himself there all on his own.

A similar situation happened in my game last night. I was lead and watching play in the post when the ball got knocked loose around the top of the key. I see it hit A2 in the leg in the front court and it's recovered by A3 in the backcourt. Given that it was loose, I doubted B has established team control, so I expected the backcourt call, but it didn't come.

I ended up in front of B's coach shortly after and he wanted to know why why the call wasn't made. I told him it wasn't my call and he'd have to ask my partner but I assumed my partner determined they had gained team control.

We discussed the play at halftime, and it turned out he had the rule wrong, thinking any touch by B during the loose ball negated the backcourt violation.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Welpe, what, in your opinion, is required to not "throw your partner under the bus?" It seems to me that anything short of telling the coach that grabbing your own rebound is travelling is, by your definition, throwing your partner under the bus.

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation because you're giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. If we are 100% sure, we should go in and get it right with our partner before the game is resumed. Telling a coach your partner was wrong doesn't mollify the situation, it exacerbates it.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation.

huh???

So the coach KNOWS the rule and that your partner got it wrong and asks you. What do you say or do? give him a stupid blank look?

What's wrong with, "if that's what he said, I think he misapplied the rule, I'll discuss this with him first chance I get."

Grow up man. Your partner screwed up and you're not going out of your way to put him in the spotlight. He then makes it worse by continuing to defend his position.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation because you're giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. If we are 100% sure, we should go in and get it right with our partner before the game is resumed. Telling a coach your partner was wrong doesn't mollify the situation, it exacerbates it.

+1

If we think our partner has misapplied a rule and a brief conversation can correct it then I think we should try to do that.

If, however, in the case of the OP we think our partner misapplied a rule but let it go b/c we arent sure of exactly what they called then I don't think it's a good idea to tell the coach your partner was wrong. That opens up a can of worms that I have seen get REALLY ugly. it undermines your partner, undermines you as a crew, and gives the coach ammo for the rest of the game and beyond.

You can let the coach know that he has a correct interpretation of the rule and let him know you will discuss it with your partner at half time or after the game. In the case of the OP, I'm not going to have a conversation with the Coach about what he and my partner discussed or my partner's interp of the rule right then and there. There is too much that could get lost in translation.

I think you either try to correct it when it happens or live with call, discuss it in the lockerroom, and give the official who misapplied the rule the opportunity to man up and tell the coach he kicked it.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Giving the coach the correct rule is one thing but telling him that your partner was wrong is entirely different.

I like the way you handled your situation because you're giving your partner the benefit of the doubt. If we are 100% sure, we should go in and get it right with our partner before the game is resumed. Telling a coach your partner was wrong doesn't mollify the situation, it exacerbates it.

I'm officiating the game. In this instance, I'm doing my best to ignore him without being dismissive. Timeout and I have other duties to attend to, I'm near him and I'm moving away for a better angle or closing down. I'm having very little, if anything to say to him.

Stay away.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by deecee

The coach already knows he was wrong...What do you do? Play stupid as well?

No, you refuse to play. Tough spot, but there's no reason to acknowledge it (your partner's admission) since you really don't know if the coach is playing you or not. Even if you heard your partner say it, just tell the coach you aren't going discuss a call you didn't make.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

The coach already knows he was wrong...What do you do? Play stupid as well?

"Coach, I didn't see the whole play. I'll ask my partner about it at halftime."