Originally Posted by Ignats75 (Post 808752)

Boys JV game last year. Player swore under his breath after being called for a shooting foul. Was not directed at anyone in particular. After the players were lined up, before I administered the shot, I said to him in front of everyone...

Originally Posted by 7IronRef

BTW, of course a parent is going to stick up for their child, especially when there was no profanity involved and it wasn't disrepectful.

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 808761)

Not profanity? True. Not disrespectful? Disagree. There are plenty of parents in my area -- myself included -- that wouldn't back their 6th grader for talking to an official like that.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef (Post 808750)

TF's are supposed to improve the game

Originally Posted by 7IronRef (Post 808769)

If that is your interpretation on every comment made under one's breath...

Originally Posted by 7IronRef (Post 808769)

It was under his breath, the official asked for a repeat (baited), basically knowing that if kid repeated he would T him. The official baited a 6th grader, come on.

The comment and under his breath aspect of if is not disrespectful in my opinion. There are other ways to handle this situation, advise the player or coach in some way so that they know they are about to cross the line (yours, not mine).

If that is your interpretation on every comment made under one's breath, you will have a difficult time being consistent in calling it during games and in calling your children on it. Good luck penalizing everyone of them. :D

Originally Posted by reffish (Post 808665)

So, you think he said something, then ask him to repeat it, then whack him? You asked what he said and he answered. I side with the parent on this one. Be careful what you ask for. If he repeats it, the teachable moment is you then telling the kid that is inappropriate and move on. It is true that players don't get to say such things to a ref, but asking him what he said without whacking him the first time is not what we get to do as refs. Get it the first time.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 808775)

Sorry, but if I can hear it, it's not under his breath.

Originally Posted by bainsey (Post 808771)

It isn't. Read the entire post.

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 808777)

"What did you say" is code for I'll give you chance to informally take back what was said. We've all done it with our kids(or wives and live to tell about it). It's being generous. I might say it if comment was mumbled and I caught the gist of it. IMHO in this case, a T is in order.

Can't agree more with teaching moment. I see it so much with coaches in AAU ball.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef (Post 808782)

Under one's breath and the statement the player made is hardly worthy of a TF and is difficult to remain consistent on.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef (Post 808750)

Sounds like over officiating to me.

TF's are supposed to improve the game and I don't see that in this case. So what if a 6th grader thought and said the call was crap (unless he said it loud enough that it could not have been overlooked - which wasn't the case "under his breath"). The player had just fouled out, made a comment, was asked to repeat it by an adult/authority figure, got T'd for it - baited in my opinion.

Let it go, maybe say something to the coach and move on. Remember that at least one person is going to think any call or no-call is crap depending on their POV.

BTW, of course a parent is going to stick up for their child, especially when there was no profanity involved and it wasn't disrepectful.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 808775)

Sorry, but if I can hear it, it's not under his breath. This comment is going to be a T from me in any game I work (I don't work college), getting his fifth foul doesn't give him a free pass. 6th grade game? It would be in the top five easiest calls I've ever made.

I don't care what level anyone works, there is NO WAY you call this every time - you cannot be consistent under the context that this situation was presented. Did you ever play the game?!

Do you really think Dad would have reacted different if the OP had just gone straight to the T? No, Dad just wanted the opportunity to tell the refs how bad he thought they sucked.

I could care less what a parent thinks, their POV is distorted. The OP should have ignored the parent after the game, or simply told the parent it is between the officials and the player, ask your player. Engaging a parent is not going to help things and your have opened the door for further comment whether you intended to or not. It is possible the parent thought his player used more colorful language and was going to talk with his kid, but when he got an explaination, he disagreed. But again, it is his problem.

And as for the "Ts are supposed to make the game better" canard, Rich addressed it pretty well. Ts are not supposed to make the game better, they're supposed to punish unsporting behavior. They normally make the game better, but if they don't, that doesn't diminish the validity of the T.

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 808785)

In your opinion.

Unsporting technical fouls are always going to have a high degree of judgment involved and should take into account the particular Roman province you call games, the level, temperature of the game, etc. I have a hard time criticizing a fellow official for issuing a technical foul without being there.

Originally Posted by 7IronRef (Post 808788)