stupid kid; stupid parent
 

Did a 6th grade boy’s game last week. My partner calls 5th foul on #40. I hear the boy say under his breath, “that call is a bunch of crap.” I say to him, “What did you say?” (Thinking the kid would not say it again) He says the same thing. I give him a technical and tell his coach what happened. After the game the parent asks me what #40 did to get the technical. I told him what happened and mentioned the boy had the chance to take back what was said the first time but repeated the same message, Dad says, “well it was crap and the boy was just answering the question.” Suggesting the boy should not get a T for answering my question. I said it doesn’t work that way and stated you don’t say that to a ref. The dad ranted on about bad calls prior to that, and I just turned and walked away.
In my opinion it was a teachable moment for the boy . Probably not for the dad,

You thought it was a teachable moment, and it was. Problem was that the child learned that he can say that and dad will back him. That sums up what is wrong with basketball and even life off the court. During teachable moments the children learn that they can get away with far too much, at least as far as parents are concerned. Parents need to be parents and teach their kids some respect for authority, regardless if they agree with the authority.

I agree he shouldn't have gotten it for answering the question. He should have gotten it for saying it the first time.

No Need For Him To Repeat His Comment ...
 

Agree.

So, you think he said something, then ask him to repeat it, then whack him? You asked what he said and he answered. I side with the parent on this one. Be careful what you ask for. If he repeats it, the teachable moment is you then telling the kid that is inappropriate and move on. It is true that players don't get to say such things to a ref, but asking him what he said without whacking him the first time is not what we get to do as refs. Get it the first time.

Disagree. Personally, I wouldn't have bothered and would have just stuck him, but an official who tries to give him the chance to back down isn't the problem. Letting it go the second time would have been worse.

Agree with Snaq.

If you ask him to repeat it you are baiting him. Either ignore it or T him on the spot. You cannot win with parents at any level. Those after-game conversations rarely go well and should be avoided at all costs.

For the record, I don't advocate ignoring. It needs to be addressed.

I agree with you. Nothing good can come of asking him to repeat himself. If you're not sure what he said, he just got a freebie. Good on him. If you heard him the first time, whack him and move on. I don't negotiate with players.

Stick him the first time, for sure, or he gets a freebie. As an educator, when you ask the student to repeat something you might have heard, giving him a chance to "back down" (this is now creating an environment of challenges and what teen is going to back down from a challenge {as a parent and middle school and high school teacher, this rarely happens}) don't be surprised on what you hear and especially don't punish the kid when you ask for clarification, just correct and move on. As an official, if you ask for clarification, don't stick the kid for being honest. It may seem weird, but this will build trust on the court and build a rapport with the players. If you are not seeking that and want to, well I am not sure what you are seeking, and want to the "that ref" according to players, then stick the kid when he answers your questions honestly and be satisfied that the kid has learned his lesson, or whatever you are trying to prove.

Confucius Say ...
 

Be careful what you ask for, because you might just get it.

I may say, #40 if you said what I think you said, please don't use that type of language here. No point in asking him to repeat it, nothing good will come from that and given that he's just been hit with his 5th foul he may be upset so you have to give them some room.

Last week I had an 8th grader commit his 5th foul on a nice open field tackle on the dribbler, no other way to describe it, I call the intentional foul, fouler turns to me and says thanks for the doing the game ref, have a great night and he leaves the court smiling. Table confirms 5 fouls, I inform coach and he says, I know, he (the player) already told me.

Yes my partner should have taken all that but he was too busy walking back up the court from trail.

Why ask a player what he said? Either T him b/c you heard what he said or leave it alone.

I've learned this the hard way, nothing good can be gained from engaging with parents and fans.

really?
 

Sounds like over officiating to me.

TF's are supposed to improve the game and I don't see that in this case. So what if a 6th grader thought and said the call was crap (unless he said it loud enough that it could not have been overlooked - which wasn't the case "under his breath"). The player had just fouled out, made a comment, was asked to repeat it by an adult/authority figure, got T'd for it - baited in my opinion.

Let it go, maybe say something to the coach and move on. Remember that at least one person is going to think any call or no-call is crap depending on their POV.

BTW, of course a parent is going to stick up for their child, especially when there was no profanity involved and it wasn't disrepectful.

Boys JV game last year. Player swore under his breath after being called for a shooting foul. Was not directed at anyone in particular. After the players were lined up, before I administered the shot, I said to him in front of everyone,

"I'm think I heard you say shoot. Just don't cross that line as swearing will get you tee'd up."

Every one gets the message. Now, if the expletive was directed AT any official or player, then WHACK!

If he said it under his breath, I can certainly see passing on it. Still, if no-one else heard it, why bring it up in front of everyone else? Why not merely speak with him about it?

Not profanity? True. Not disrespectful? Disagree. There are plenty of parents in my area -- myself included -- that wouldn't back their 6th grader for talking to an official like that.

It was under his breath, the official asked for a repeat (baited), basically knowing that if kid repeated he would T him. The official baited a 6th grader, come on.

The comment and under his breath aspect of if is not disrespectful in my opinion. There are other ways to handle this situation, advise the player or coach in some way so that they know they are about to cross the line (yours, not mine).

If that is your interpretation on every comment made under one's breath, you will have a difficult time being consistent in calling it during games and in calling your children on it. Good luck penalizing everyone of them. :D

Sorry, but I don't buy that. It's nice when TFs do improve the game (ones that stop a coach from complaining on every trip, for example), but many technical fouls cause dead time where people can focus even more on the technical itself. That doesn't mean that a technical foul should be avoided.

It isn't. Read the entire post.

Sorry, but if I can hear it, it's not under his breath. This comment is going to be a T from me in any game I work (I don't work college), getting his fifth foul doesn't give him a free pass. 6th grade game? It would be in the top five easiest calls I've ever made.

Do you really think Dad would have reacted different if the OP had just gone straight to the T? No, Dad just wanted the opportunity to tell the refs how bad he thought they sucked.

And as for the "Ts are supposed to make the game better" canard, Rich addressed it pretty well. Ts are not supposed to make the game better, they're supposed to punish unsporting behavior. They normally make the game better, but if they don't, that doesn't diminish the validity of the T.

"What did you say" is code for I'll give you chance to informally take back what was said. We've all done it with our kids(or wives and live to tell about it). It's being generous. I might say it if comment was mumbled and I caught the gist of it. IMHO in this case, a T is in order.

Can't agree more with teaching moment. I see it so much with coaches in AAU ball.

Exactly. Was going to write this myself when I saw you had beaten me to it.

I did. You quoted my comment about it not being disrespectful. Your reference to profanity is in regard to a diff situation. Under one's breath and the statement the player made is hardly worthy of a TF and is difficult to remain consistent on.

I agree. While I would never use it, and I think it can only backfire, the OP was giving the kid a chance to unearn the T.
This comment needs to be addressed. If I didn't hear it clearly, I'll likely talk to the coach, "I only heard enough to give you a heads up coach." But if I hear it clearly, whack.

In your opinion.

Unsporting technical fouls are always going to have a high degree of judgment involved and should take into account the particular Roman province you call games, the level, temperature of the game, etc. I have a hard time criticizing a fellow official for issuing a technical foul without being there.

Wasn't disrespectful? A sixth grader addressing an adult and an official to boot? While not profane 'crap' from a sixth grader should not be part of his/her vocabulary

And by the way, My kids are Catholic and are automatically guilty until proven innocent!

Well said.

Then we don't agree. If I was the OP, I would have gone straight to the T. I can tell you that this comment, if I hear it, is a T every time; especially in this context. I'm calling this every time in a high school game.

If you think ringing up an 11 year old for this is over officiating, then we're not going to agree.

Sounds like something an idiot fan would ask.

What a stupid remark.

funny, but if true, sad

Let's keep religion out of this :D

my kids are allowed to have an opinion, my kids are sometimes right, my kids should not be baited by adults - kids always lose under those circumstances.

You have forgotten what a 6th graders life is like. Go to any grade school and you will hear kids (not mine, I believe) using more colorful language. I understand tone and disagreement play a factor, but the OP does not cross a line with me.

Do to a formatting error, I missed that one. I'm doubting at this point whether 7iron is an actual official.

My answer: yes, so?

Can I join the club?

Of course you would say that, unreasonable people see it as an attack, when it is simply a question of reference.

As players we have all said something under our breath from time to time. As an official we say things under our breath. As spouses, employees, etc. we say things under our breath. Is it best that every comment be penalized? Not in my opinion.

I said, the entire post. You missed the line above regarding under one's breath.

I'll give far more leeway to a high school player than to a sixth grader regarding under-one's-breath comments. A sixth grader will get no leeway at all. I'd also go right to a T, even if it were under his breath.

Ultimately, though, Welpe summed it up nicely. Mostly, these are HTBT situations.

No, he doesn't see it as an attack. He sees it as an irrelevant question that only a fan or parent would ask.

As a spouse, if and when I say things under my breath, I'd better hope it's truly under my breath and my wife doesn't hear it. Like I said before, if I can hear it, it's not under his breath.

Sure, I'm guessing neither of us is first or second.

I see it for what it is, something that I've only heard from ignorant people like fans and coaches who think you had to have played a game to be able to officiate it. It's IRRELEVANT.

And again, everyone but you seems to agree, if I hear it then he did NOT say it under his breath. For all we know he meant to say it loud enough for the closest official to hear it. Happens all the time.


I'm not saying that I would T this up. But it's certainly not appropriate! And if I didn't T it, you can better believe I'll let the kid know it's not acceptable behavior.

We will leave it at funny........

I have two kids who are doing really well in all areas, thank you , and probably what I'm most proud of is they treat people with respect. How shallow to think if everyone is using foul language, it's ok to lower the bar. Not how I was raised.

Yep, and I happen to have a sixth grader sitting next to me watching TV right now. No way I'd back her up on this. She'd be apologizing to the official.

And it's not the word "crap" for me, either. He could have said "that call was a bunch of garbage" and my response would be the same.

appreciate the bantor
 

Thanks for offering of opinions as always. I accept that people see it differently and I agree with HTBT, but the OP presented it for discussion, the context is what was stated.

Not that it matters, but I really am an official (level does not matter, but if you need to know, you can PM me).

For those of you that said this is a TF, good luck calling it consistently and stop baiting 6th graders.:D

+1

We're the role models here. We're supposed to be setting the bar, not adjusting it to their desires.

Yes, and for another reason. NEVER have I met an official that NEVER played the game. Some certainly played at higher levels than others, but none have never played, at least not to my knowledge.

Actually, my definition differs here a bit. If I believe I'm the ONLY one that heard it, and the words weren't directed at anyone, then I'd call that under one's breath.

I don't get what you think is so difficult about this.

Fair enough, but there's nothing about "under his breath" in the rules that makes it legal. The point is, if it's loud enough for an official to hear it, it's loud enough to be susceptible to a T.

A coach addressing his players doesn't get a free pass just because he's talking to his players. Had a YMCA coach discussing the foul count with the table at half time; I addressed it with her.

If you change the setting in this situation from the basketball court to the 6th grade math class or the 6th grader's own home and the teacher or parent respond's with "what did you say ??"......

It's not baiting.

If the kid repeats the comment, he should get punished.

With the table? I don't see the point of that. How did she mention it?

Then we disagree.

At one point, Coach Bobbie Knight asked the table, "What's the foul count? 10-2? 10-2!! REALLY!" loud enough for the officials to hear it.

Talking to them loudly enough for us to hear.

Sort of like talking to his players in a TO huddle, "Johnny, don't worry, that was a great block. It was a horrible call."

Gotcha. I had a fun one a few years ago in a youth tournament when the table (scorekeeper) was complaining about the foul count with us at halftime! I addressed it.

When my son was in 9th or 10th grade, he was playing intramural basketball. It was my job to pick him up so I stopped in for a while to watch. My son seemed to think he could both play and officiate. All at once a booming voice came from the crowd: "Son, knock it off". Of course it was me, dear old dad. The ride home was interesting to say the least.

The young man learned a valuable lesson that evening. And once he got out of high school, he became an excellent official.

I've posted this before, but it seems relevant to this thread, so here it is again. I called a T on a kid for profanity (I think he was 6th grade) in our local kids rec league. In our league, this is an automatic flagrant T. I told his coach and there was no problem, since the coach also heard what the kid said and he knew the rule. I went to report it to the table and the score book guy said there was no way he was recording it in the book and then he just leaned back, folded his arms and shook his head sideways. He said, "That's my son and he wouldn't swear." At first, I thought he was kidding, but he wasn't. I had to tell the coach to replace the guy, which he did.

Snaq's...in this case I would either ignore the comment or have a brief conversation with the Coach about his sportsmanship. i.e. "your getting close Coach"

I don't see ME giving the Coach a T, in this case, but it's a possibility.

Are you saying you would whack the Coach?

What did the kid say?

I know when a Coach asks me this...I say he used profanity (as you did)...but, we're all friends here...what did he say?

Is "Damn" profanity and worthy of ejection in 6th grade? Just curious.

He used the "F word". And yes, in our local kids rec league, "damn" is considered profanity. We actually had a discussion about that a few years ago and that was the decision. It's a "zero tolerance" organization.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was just relating the cases by the fact that coaches sometimes think they can say whatever they want as long as it's directed to their players. Saying something under one's breath doesn't make it ok any more than saying it to your team does.

To answer your question, no, I wouldn't ring him up for that, but if a player went back to his huddle yelling that to his coach, he'll get one.

Does George Carlin Know About This ???
 

Do you have a list? Are there seven words on the list?

You're right, it doesn't matter, enjoy third graders telling you "you suck":D:D:D

I suppose it depends on how you view "played the game." If you mean it to include rec league, I've played once or twice for the church team (but not until after I started refereeing). If you mean for a school or as a child on club teams, I haven't. FWIW, I don't consider myself to have ever "played" basketball or really any other sport that I officiate. My involvement in sport has always been from the officiating rather than the playing side.

Absolutely, 100% with you on this one...player's get ZERO tolerance in the area of poor sportsmanship and bad behavior...and that's why WE get the "big bucks"... WE get to use OUR judgement as too what is NOT appropriate.

I rarely have a problem with players...maybe because they know they are not going to get away with it.

I whacked a H.S. Varsity player the other night for throwing his arms in the air and saying something about the OOB call I just made. It's not WHAT he said...it's HOW he said it.

The Coach said, "He's my speaking captain". I said, "Doesn't matter...I may let YOU talk to me like that, but the KIDS get NO leeway". The table got a good laugh out of that...and the Coach said, "OK, I'll talk to him about it".

Last night, my partner whacked a kid (H.S. Varsity) for saying, "and one" as the kid ran by my partner at half court. It wasn't the statement that got him...it was the WAY he shouted it too my partner as he ran by him.

Easy stuff...;)

Quite a few years ago, I worked lots of men's wreck league games with a guy who, unfortunately, has passed away. I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard him say to a player after a shot, "Don't give me any of that 'and one' sh!t." It was almost like his trademark.

Okay, I'm going to have to pipe in late on this one.

In my opinion, you only set yourself up for trouble, and you intentionally set up the player by saying anything to the effect of "What did you say?"

First of all, what kind of response are you looking for? Several people have said you're hoping the kid will "take back" what was said. How? So you're hoping the kid, in the heat of the moment, will just come to you and say, "I'm sorry, Mr. Ref. I said something I shouldn't have, and I apologize."

That's pretty unrealistic, if you ask me.

So, what you've done now is put the player in a position where he/she either has to lie ("I didn't say anything" or simply "nothing"), or is forced to repeat himself/herself, which you've expressly asked him or her to do, so how are you then going to ding the player for it? That's called entrapment.

If you are 100% sure you hear it the first time, whack the first time. If you aren't 100% sure of what you hear the first time, either ignore it, or say something more constructive than "What did you say?" such as "Now, I thought I heard you say something, but I couldn't be sure. If I catch you saying something inappropriate, it's going to be a technical foul. You got me?"

Watch out asking questions...you might not like the answers.;)

That's perfect for men's league, too. Probably why I don't work men's league. :D

You truly are aptly named.

Maybe not everyone is aware of the informal codes you use on the basketball court. If you ask a question you should be expecting a response.

The players options are:

- Refuse to do what you instructed him to do and say nothing.
- Lie to you and say he said something else.
- Truthfully answer you.

You said you do this type of stuff with your kids. Do you want your kids lying to you? Do you want your kids to refuse to do what you told them to do? Or would you rather have them obey you?

Calling a technical foul after asking what was said is a terrible way to handle the situation. You asked a question and it was answered. If you didn't want to hear the answer then you shouldn't have asked the question.

Was there a response to the actual topic anywhere in there?

I will speak from the classroom teacher perspective: If you heard something, punish it, like the OP. "What did you say?" when you have already heard what was said is power tripping and baiting the kid. If you want to have a teaching moment with the kid, tell the kid that is inappropriate to say in class (or game) and move on. If you want to punish the kid, do it when you hear it! Reflection table (classroom) or technical (game).

In the OP, the kid learns that if a ref asks a question, he may or may not be punished, so when asked, lie! Now that's a lesson for a kid from an authority figure!

Old and out of touch
 

I haven't been in a classroom in a few yrs and have never heard of this. Can you enlighten me on what this is (seriously) and at what ages it's used.

Thanks.

Time Out

It's new age mumbo jumbo that elementary (I hope) schools are fond of now.

My kid has to "take a break" if she's being naughty. She says some wacky pledge ("I will not use my hands or my words for hurting myself or others") after the Pledge of Allegiance every day.

But "reflection table" probably tops everything I've heard come out of my kid's school, which is a real feat.

What did you say?

I was explaining how you don't handle this type of situation well.

I'm sorry, but when I use this tactic on my kids, the answer is, invariably, "I'm sorry." It's not teaching them to lie or any of that garbage, it's reinforcing the fact that their tone, words, or behavior is unacceptable.

Do I use this on the court? No, I'll address it another way (with a T or direct words). But an official who does so is simply making an error in tactic, not baiting the kid. The T is for what the player said the first time, not for repeating it. Repeating it when asked is merely displaying a lack of remorse and reinforcing the decision to ring him up.

Chiming in Late
 

As someone who worked directly with kids for over 5 years (high school teacher, running youth sports camps, leagues) I think asking, "what did you say" and then assessing a T is TERRIBLE judgement.

You are essentially giving the kid two options: Admit to something we both already know you did and be punished for it or LIE and escape punishment. It doesnt take kids long to figure out lying is the better option for them.

Saying that you are giving a kid a chance to "back down" is just wrong. As a previous poster said its "power tripping" and a misuse of authority. If the kid lies about what he said he's not "backing down." He's lying to avoid punishment AND he's gotten away with saying something inappropriate without suffering any consequences or learning anything (other than that its ok to lie to avoid punisment).

The appropriate options IMO are to:

A) Assess T when you hear it
B) Tell the kid something to the effect of, "I didnt quite hear what you said but if I even think I hear you say something disrespectful or inappropriate again you'll be watching this game from the parking lot."

If you do make the mistake of asking, "what did you say," and the kid answers honestly I think at that point you have to "back down" and then say something like "don't say that again or I'm tossing you." Otherwise the kid learns nothing but lying and avoiding punishment is better than honesty and being punished. And it looks HIGHLY UNPROFESSIONAL to coaches and parents to see an official engage a kid in conversation and then whack them as a result.

In Varsity games if I hear a kid mumble things under their breath I either ignore it or say something like, "#12 play ball..." They usually get the message. On the rare occasion that I do a sub varsity or youth rec games, I have pretty much zero tolerance for "back talk." I find that if you don't nip it in the bud early a lot of these kids feel they can give a running commentary of the officiating and it irritates the .... out of me. I'll tell this kids before the game, "You're here to play, I'm here to officiate. Let's not get that confused." Whacking the first kid that runs his mouth usually gets the message across but I remember giving 5 Ts in 3 games on a rec league Saturday last year.

I'm honestly not sure if I think asking the OP's question is baiting or not, but is threatening a kid a better way to handle it?

Plus, what are you going to say if the kid says, "no matter what you do, I'm not watching the rest of the game from the parking lot so you are wrong with that!" The kid would be correct.

So, a 14 year old JV player can mumble things under their breath, but a 14 year old varsity player can "back talk"? Got it. Here I was thinking all high school kids should practice the proper sportsmanship.

Call me crazy, but sometimes those "rare occasions" :rolleyes: serve two purposes: 1) get me home sooner during a long season and 2) allow me to work with a younger official. Both positives for the association in my little corner of the silver state. :D

RichMSN and grunewar,
We use a behavior matrix to discipline the students in the event they are inappropriate on campus. Part of the matrix is a 5 min reflection time separate from the classroom to answer three questions. This gives time for the student and teacher to gather themselves before engaging each other again regarding the incident. The effectiveness is documentation is created for later use during parent conferences and/or suspension times. This also avoids the challenging times between student and teacher. Thanks for asking.

Well said. If only there was a like button here...

There is: (QUOTE) +1

And I agree.

+1

1) Perhaps I embellished a little bit with the "watching the game from the parking lot." I've never actually said that to a kid. And that's why I said say "something to the effect of..."

But the point, that others seem to get, is not to threaten but to let them know that there are consequences if they choose to say certain things. From experience and feel you will find out the exact words that work for you. If I did actually say "watching the game from the parking lot" and the kid responded like you said, I would just say, "ok, we'll see" and leave it at that. That's the second point. Once you engage the kid, its REALLY hard to give a T at that point unless they just say something outrageous. So again, you have to figure out what words work for you. And from observation and experience, "What did you say" rarely works for anyone.

2) Either you missed the point or I was not clear in the distinction between how I handle players talking in varsity games vs sub varsity/rec. The point is that in varsity games, I don't hear as much talk from players because they have more to lose and are more mature. Once they start talking a simple, "#12 play ball", works almost every time. At the other levels, kids are less mature and have less to lose, so simply saying, "play ball" doesnt always get the point across. So I have found that in order to nip it in the bud I have a shorter leash with these kids. If that doesnt make sense to you then so be it.


3) I don't know why you :rolleyes: at my "rare occasions" comment as if it somehow offends you. There is nothing wrong with anybody working games on any level. It's all a matter of personal choice. I simply stated, as a matter of fact, that it is a rare occasion for me to work sub-varsity level games right now. I use to work those games all the time. In fact, that's how I fed myself as a grad student. And I will still help out our rec assigner whenever he asks and I'm able. But it's my choice to rarely work those games as I do not enjoy working them nearly as much. If you do, for whatever the reason may be, then good for you. But no need to roll your eyes in response to me stating the frequency that I work certain levels.

When you have an audience that includes young officials, people who take things literally (like me) and others, I would suggest saying what you mean and meaning what you say. Even saying something to the effect of a kid watching a game from anywhere other than the bench as a result of you throwing them out of the game isn't going to happen. Or at least it isn't supposed to. That being the case, saying something to the effect of that is just an exercise in pronouncing or typing words. Or, as us "mature" people used to say, you are talking out the side of your neck.

2) Either you missed the point or I was not clear in the distinction between how I handle players talking in varsity games vs sub varsity/rec. The point is that in varsity games, I don't hear as much talk from players because they have more to lose and are more mature. Once they start talking a simple, "#12 play ball", works almost every time. At the other levels, kids are less mature and have less to lose, so simply saying, "play ball" doesnt always get the point across. So I have found that in order to nip it in the bud I have a shorter leash with these kids. If that doesnt make sense to you then so be it.

The comment doesn't offend me, but what did it add to your comments? Would your comment read the same without "rare occasion" and not run the risk of offending someone who is working their way up through the ranks? I work those games based on the needs of my crew, my work schedule, and my own desire. I assign the games for my crew so I ultimately decide if I work a freshmen game or a varsity game on any given night. The point is, your post could be read as you are too good for a sub-varsity game. Just saying...seems like it got you bent out of shape so let me take this opportunity to hit you with a :D

A behavior matrix? You're making fun of me now, aren't you?

I sense a new meme coming.

We could use that matrix for coach behavior...

HAHA, no really. Types of behavior and level of consequence for each level.

I get it...you're training them to be future manages of corporations where they'll implement this same scheme.

Hey now! I like HR, but some days I don't know what I can say to people anymore. Sometimes I think we manage to avoid lawsuits then carry out our mission. But when someone shows their true colors to HR, its a wrap.

I come here to learn from others and share my experience and opinions. People can take from my posts what they wish and I will continue to post what I wish without much concern for how people take things. So if someone takes something too literal or can't figure out what "something to the effect of" means then that's on them. Your talking out of the side of one's neck comment notwithstanding.

My "rare occasion" comment gave context in regards to how often I work rec/sub-varsity games. Others who work these games more frequently may have different experiences, may have found better ways to deal with players, etc. If you or anyone else reads that as I think I'm too good for those games then I really could not care less. That's a reflection of your insecurities, misconceptions, or whatever NOT me. So I also could not care less about "running the risk of offending" anyone because I don't come on here to say anything offensive. If anyone working their way up the ranks is offended by someone on an internet forum saying it's rare for them to work games at certain levels then my guess would be that individual is probably a little to thin skinned or obtuse to have long term success as an official. And bent out of shape? That's silly.

As with anything in officiating, I advise people to take information in, keep what makes sense and works for them, and either trash or mentally file the rest away. If you want to take everything literally or nitpick over things that I share in my posts then feel free to do so. I'll just be sure to try and chime in the next time you take me out of context.

Do we know each other? Seriously, assuming you work IAABO in the local area, do you work on board 12 or 134?

I work on the other side of the river.