Have any of you ever called...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The crew as a whole is charged with administering the game. Mechanics are a simply a guideline to getting it done....they are not the rules. They are guidelines that should generally, almost exclusively, be followed....but don't let the guidelines rope you in to doing the wrong thing because its not your call. Our first priority is the game. Yes, one official has the responsibility to call it but the entire crew has the responsibility to address an obvious infraction of the rules.

This is not unlike that Rutgers/St. Johns game last year where all three officials got suspended for screwing up the end of the game. Only one of them had responsibility according to the mechanics but they all paid for it. All were expected to step up and do the right thing for the game. If any one of them had stepped up and dealt with it, there would have never been an issue. Sure, one of them might have been irritated, but it would have been over and forgotten about.

At the very least, the new lead, after some time, should either be calling the violation or stopping the clock to deal with the unusual delay in the team being able to take the ball OOB for a throwin...and I'm not saying it was enough in the above situation, 8 seconds is not enough to jump in....there was no unusual delay in the ball being available.

I will put it this way. I am a Back Judge in football. If I call a Roughing the Passer penalty I really need to hang up my whistle and stripped shirt. The other situation you are talking about as far as I remember was not the same as this situation.

And like I used to hear this as a kid, "You can be right and dead at the same time." I think I would have to eat that mistake and let my partner do his job.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I will put it this way. I am a Back Judge in football. If I call a Roughing the Passer penalty I really need to hang up my whistle and stripped shirt. The other situation you are talking about as far as I remember was not the same as this situation.

And like I used to hear this as a kid, "You can be right and dead at the same time." I think I would have to eat that mistake and let my partner do his job.

Peace

If you make a judgment call so far out of your area as in your BJ example, you're right...I agree.

What I'm talking about is not about judgment....it is about absolutes. The only judgement in this case is whether the player has it at their disposal or not....and that is a judgment call only when a player may be delaying the throwin by not picking up the ball or taking it out of bounds.

However, when the player has the ball OOB and is in a position to make a throwin, there is no judgment to it....by rule, the count should be on. If 8, 9 or more seconds transpire after that point, someone better have something.

When the final buzzer sounds and you're asked about the play by your assignor, I don't want to be left with saying I knew it should have been called but did nothing and point the finger at my partner.

And the play I referred to was indeed different, but it was a player where the crew was held responsible for what was the responsibility of one official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If you make a judgment call so far out of your area as in your BJ example, you're right...I agree.

What I'm talking about is not about judgment....it is about absolutes. The only judgement in this case is whether the player has it at their disposal or not....and that is a judgment call only when a player may be delaying the throwin by not picking up the ball or taking it out of bounds.

However, when the player has the ball OOB and is in a position to make a throwin, there is no judgment to it....by rule, the count should be on. If 8, 9 or more seconds transpire after that point, someone better have something.

An official has too much time on their hands if they are calling something here from the Trail. There are players that could be trying to get free and move around the court. If he/she is counting and has the time to make that call, they are certainly not doing their job which is required to watch a lot of players certainly in two person and the case in three person as well. If that kind of issue takes place than an official that is the new trail should not be working those kinds of games if they cannot get those plays right. We have people get banned for much lesser things in games, why would we not do the same here? We cannot take it upon ourselves to make everything right in the world because we think a partner screwed up.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

When the final buzzer sounds and you're asked about the play by your assignor, I don't want to be left with saying I knew it should have been called but did nothing and point the finger at my partner.

I would not be telling an assignor I knew something I am not watching for. I would not be in this situation. I had a situation take place on a 3 point shot where the ball went in on a off-ball foul and my partner counted the basket. The only information I could give is that the ball went in. I could not tell the assignor definitively that the foul took place before or after the ball was released (which was the assignor's contention) and certainly could only give very little help. Why? I was watching other players and could not tell you what was happening on the other side of the court. I probably got banned from that league and honestly I am OK with that. The assignor did not know the rule and his handling of the situation was evidence of what I felt about him.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And the play I referred to was indeed different, but it was a player where the crew was held responsible for what was the responsibility of one official.

Well as I said, you can be dead and right at the same time. I am not taking my responsibility for my partner that has a judgment call in a situation like this. I might help out when appropriate, but not make a call for him/her that they have all the way. If they cannot get that right they should not be there.

Peace