Correctable error quandry

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Toren

Correctable errors are errors caused by officials. These are our errors.

Some of them are caused by officials. Usually, they're caused by table officials. We can only act on the information given.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Some of them are caused by officials. Usually, they're caused by table officials. We can only act on the information given.

I don't agree, in what situation would a table official be completely responsible?

We didn't shoot the 1 and 1 because the score board only had 6 fouls listed...why didn't we notice when foul #4 wasn't added to the board? That's our error

We shot the 1 and 1 when there was only 6 team fouls but the board is showing 7 team fouls...why didn't we notice that when foul #3 was reported, it jumped to foul #5.

In all correctable errors, the responsibility is ours. I will not pardon myself. I have been lucky enough to not have to deal with a correctable error yet, but when it happens I will be looking long and hard at tape to figure out where I lost concentration.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Toren

I don't agree, in what situation would a table official be completely responsible?

We didn't shoot the 1 and 1 because the score board only had 6 fouls listed...why didn't we notice when foul #4 wasn't added to the board? That's our error

We shot the 1 and 1 when there was only 6 team fouls but the board is showing 7 team fouls...why didn't we notice that when foul #3 was reported, it jumped to foul #5.

In all correctable errors, the responsibility is ours. I will not pardon myself. I have been lucky enough to not have to deal with a correctable error yet, but when it happens I will be looking long and hard at tape to figure out where I lost concentration.

Why didn't we notice? Because the board doesn't display foul counts. Not every board is capable.

Also, the "official" record is the scorebook. I don't look to see if they record everything right. If the board seems to have the right numbers based on your observation but the book has something different, what are you going to do? Take the official record or the unofficial record? If you can't identify the missing/extra foul for the scorebook, you have to take the book as it is, the board means nothing.

If you can reliably count the team and player fouls on both teams for both halves, every single game, great. But, I've got more interesting things to do than the scorekeeper's job. And even if you can, you might find your attention would be better applied elsewhere.

[Toren]

What I have said is correctable errors are caused by officials. I have also said they are 100% preventable.

I have also said I will not pardon myself when my first one happens. I might be able to justify it in a similar manner, saying something to myself like "well the board didn't have fouls, so how could I have prevented it...I guess I couldn't have." Or "that stupid official scorekeeper couldn't keep track of fouls, no way I could have prevented his stupidity."

But me personally I won't do that, I will hold myself responsible for not having prevented it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Toren

But me personally I won't do that, I will hold myself responsible for not having prevented it.

That's fine, go right ahead. But you used the word "officials," which includes ALL of us.

"Is that the 10th team foul?"
"No, it's still 1&1."
"Are you sure?"
"Yes."
"Is that what you have, too?"
"Yes sir."

I sure would like to know what the hell I'm supposed to do in that situation. Go over and count the fouls myself every time we have have one, I guess.

When a scorer tells me it's 1&1 and then later tells me it should have been 2, that's the SCORER'S error, not mine. It's not really a big deal but let's get the facts straight. And nothing you can say will change that.

Feel free to take credit for that error if you want to but don't throw the rest of us in there, too.

[Loudwhistle2]

Originally Posted by Toren

What I have said is correctable errors are caused by officials. I have also said they are 100% preventable.

I have also said I will not pardon myself when my first one happens. I might be able to justify it in a similar manner, saying something to myself like "well the board didn't have fouls, so how could I have prevented it...I guess I couldn't have." Or "that stupid official scorekeeper couldn't keep track of fouls, no way I could have prevented his stupidity."

But me personally I won't do that, I will hold myself responsible for not having prevented it.

I think you're full of beans! Refs have plenty to do during the game and the last thing I'm going to do is try and keep track of the score keeper's stats. Most of the CE situations that I've been around for were the score keepers fault. I've had 2 CE's this year and both were the scorekeepers fault.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2

I think you're full of beans! Refs have plenty to do during the game and the last thing I'm going to do is try and keep track of the score keeper's stats. Most of the CE situations that I've been around for were the score keepers fault. I've had 2 CE's this year and both were the scorekeepers fault.

What am I full of beans about? I never said you should keep track of every single player foul...as a matter of fact, I haven't said what anyone else should do.

Refs have plenty to do, agreed. But if you're going to point the finger solely at the scorekeeper and absolve yourself of any responsibility than so be it. I for one, will not.

[Loudwhistle2]

[QUOTE=Toren;807187]What am I full of beans about?

This: "Correctable errors are errors caused by officials. These are our errors."

Officials rely on the scorekeeper to provide accurate stats. I make decisions based on what they tell me. If I'm told a team has committed 7 fouls in the first half, then I start administering free throws in the appropriate situation. I'm not going over to the book at that point and physically count the 7 fouls myself to make sure the score keeper can count. You have to trust them with a lot of important information: time outs, foul count, player numbers, subsitutions etc. Most CE's are not caused by the officials, the error begins with a mistake made by the scorer which leads the official down the wrong road. I have definitely made some mistakes that weren't related to the scorekeeper, believe me I can foul things up by myself!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Toren

But if you're going to point the finger solely at the scorekeeper and absolve yourself of any responsibility than so be it. I for one, will not.

We're not worthy! We're not worthy!