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-   -   Defender slaps ball out of inbounder's hands (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/84340-defender-slaps-ball-out-inbounders-hands.html)

tref Wed Dec 14, 2011 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Refner (Post 804670)
OK, what if part of the ball in inbounds and part is OOB and the defender slaps the ball on the inbounds side? A few years ago, I had this happen. I was told that if any part of the ball is OOB and any part of the ball is slapped (even the part that was inbounds), you make the call.

Comments?

Isnt the ball either on the inbounds or out-of-bounds side of the plane?

just another ref Wed Dec 14, 2011 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 804660)
If she was standing close enough to the line, holding it at her chest could leave part of the ball over the in bounds side of the line, but assuming the ball was completely OOB, Toren and Bob have answered.

Why does the ball have to be completely out of bounds? If the defender reaches through the plane and touches the part of the ball on that side, it is still a technical, is it not?

Camron Rust Wed Dec 14, 2011 02:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Refner (Post 804670)
OK, what if part of the ball in inbounds and part is OOB and the defender slaps the ball on the inbounds side? A few years ago, I had this happen. I was told that if any part of the ball is OOB and any part of the ball is slapped (even the part that was inbounds), you make the call.

I guess it's part of the same thinking that caused the rule change this year about fouling the inbounders hands while they're over the court is the same intentional foul call as if the contact occurred with the part of their hand that was OOB. It's just too tough for the official to make that distinction.

Comments?

It isn't really where the ball is that matters. It is where the defenders hands are.

If the defenders hands remain on the inbounds side of the plane, you have a legal play.

If the defenders hands cross through the plane, you have an illegal play. The penalty depends on what they touch while reaching through the plane. If the touch nothing, delay of game. If they touch the ball, technical foul. If they touch the thrower, intentional personal foul.

(Note that not reaching through the plane but touching the thrower has reached through...presumably with the ball....has also recently been declared an intentional personal foul. It doesn't make any sense, but that hasn't stopped the recent rules committees from making changes).

tophat67 Wed Dec 14, 2011 03:58pm

So no warning on on the first time they do it? Warnings only on inbounds plane violations and not hitting the ball?

Johnny Ringo Wed Dec 14, 2011 04:05pm

What if the thrower has broken the plane with the ball and part of his/her arm.

In attempt to play the ball, the defender makes contact with throwers arm - which has broken the plane?

Is this an intentional foul or common foul?

bob jenkins Wed Dec 14, 2011 04:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophat67 (Post 804753)
So no warning on on the first time they do it? Warnings only on inbounds plane violations and not hitting the ball?

No. A T or an IP foul is ALSO the first warning. If they then break the plane again (without hitting the ball / arm), it's another T.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 804759)
What if the thrower has broken the plane with the ball and part of his/her arm.

In attempt to play the ball, the defender makes contact with throwers arm - which has broken the plane?

Is this an intentional foul or common foul?

Intentional

Camron Rust Wed Dec 14, 2011 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 804759)
What if the thrower has broken the plane with the ball and part of his/her arm.

In attempt to play the ball, the defender makes contact with throwers arm - which has broken the plane?

Is this an intentional foul or common foul?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 804764)
Intentional

Unfortunately, that is the current ruling.

It doesn't really make sense that you are allowed to play the ball but if you miss and get a little arm, you get an intentional foul, but that is what the rules committee has decided. I think they have a minimum quota of nonsensical rulings that they must make each year.

Welpe Wed Dec 14, 2011 05:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 804769)
Unfortunately, that is the current ruling.

It doesn't really make sense that you are allowed to play the ball but if you miss and get a little arm, you get an intentional foul, but that is what the rules committee has decided. I think they have a minimum quota of nonsensical rulings that they must make each year.

Well I guess we could treat that as incidental unless the contact rises to the level of an intentional foul. Not exactly what they wanted but I'm just saying...

BillyMac Wed Dec 14, 2011 06:54pm

Furthermore ...
 
The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass, the defender’s team will receive a team delay warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team delay warning will be recorded. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane, and fouls the inbounding player, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team delay warning will be recorded. It is an intentional personal foul if the defender fouls the inbounding player, even without breaking the imaginary plane, however, in this specific case, there is no delay of game warning because the defender did not break the boundary plane.

bob jenkins Wed Dec 14, 2011 07:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 804792)
Well I guess we could treat that as incidental unless the contact rises to the level of an intentional foul. Not exactly what they wanted but I'm just saying...

Don't think so. If there's contact, it's an intentional foul. Now, if the contact is missed, ...

26 Year Gap Wed Dec 14, 2011 08:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 804738)
It isn't really where the ball is that matters. It is where the defenders hands are.

If the defenders hands remain on the inbounds side of the plane, you have a legal play.

If the defenders hands cross through the plane, you have an illegal play. The penalty depends on what they touch while reaching through the plane. If the touch nothing, delay of game. If they touch the ball, technical foul. If they touch the thrower, intentional personal foul.

(Note that not reaching through the plane but touching the thrower has reached through...presumably with the ball....has also recently been declared an intentional personal foul. It doesn't make any sense, but that hasn't stopped the recent rules committees from making changes).

Sure it does. Before the change, the penalty for hitting the ball was more severe than the penalty for hitting the player.

Welpe Wed Dec 14, 2011 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 804849)
Don't think so. If there's contact, it's an intentional foul. Now, if the contact is missed, ...

Good point, I guess in this case there is no such thing as incidental contact. I still don't like it.

Adam Wed Dec 14, 2011 09:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 804856)
Good point, I guess in this case there is no such thing as incidental contact. I still don't like it.

Wonder about contact with the hand....

Camron Rust Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap (Post 804853)
Sure it does. Before the change, the penalty for hitting the ball was more severe than the penalty for hitting the player.

What penalty for hitting the ball? It was LEGAL to hit the ball. Remember, the contact we're talking about is on the inbounds side of the line.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 15, 2011 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 804863)
Wonder about contact with the hand....

Intentional Foul.


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