Unsporting? Delay of Game?

[Hartsy]

Scoring team player recovers the made shot, walks the ball to the new trail official and hands it off. This is done regularly, even after the coach of the non-scoring team told the officials he didn't like it. In his view, it was done only to allow a few more seconds to set up a press.

The officiating crew allowed this to continue all game. I'm not sure I would have. Has anyone seen a similar scenario? How would you handle it?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Scoring team player recovers the made shot, walks the ball to the new trail official and hands it off. This is done regularly, even after the coach of the non-scoring team told the officials he didn't like it. In his view, it was done only to allow a few more seconds to set up a press.

The officiating crew allowed this to continue all game. I'm not sure I would have. Has anyone seen a similar scenario? How would you handle it?

I've seen it done several times in games. I generally tell them to leave the ball alone once. Then I whistle and give them an official delay of game warning. This is definitely an advantage for that team and the officials need to recognize it as such.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by toren

i've seen it done several times in games. I generally tell them to leave the ball alone once. Then i whistle and give them an official delay of game warning. This is definitely an advantage for that team and the officials need to recognize it as such.

+1

[tjones1]

For me it depends on the situation...

However, by the book, it's a DOG the first time they do it and a technical foul anytime there after.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Scoring team player recovers the made shot, walks the ball to the new trail official and hands it off. This is done regularly, even after the coach of the non-scoring team told the officials he didn't like it. In his view, it was done only to allow a few more seconds to set up a press.

The officiating crew allowed this to continue all game. I'm not sure I would have. Has anyone seen a similar scenario? How would you handle it?

I know we are not supposed to go after gnats and ignore elephants, but DOG may be my favorite call. We used to run a fast break offense, (think LA Lakers Showtime with Magic Johnson but slower, shorter and with much less skill.) Nothing frustrated me more as a player than a team scoring then purposely knocking the ball away or delaying the game.

If it happens and it's borderline, it's a comment to the player. If it's not borderline, a DOG warning the first time it happens.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by tjones1

However, by the book, it's a DOG the first time they do it...

I always tell the scorer to just right DOG at the bottom of the page and that we call it a DOG warning. In our local kids rec league, for the little kids in 3rd and 4th grade, we use PUPPY.

[Zoochy]

The following was from a Referee magazine many years ago.

"When the scoring team touches the ball after it goes through the basket, officials should end the practice immediately. For those old enough to remember the NCAA men’s final in 1985, the reason is clear. During the game, Georgetown players had been tapping the ball gently toward the Villanova thrower-in after a score. A friendly gesture? Think again. That speeded up play a bit, which was to Georgetown’s liking. However, the real consequence of allowing that practice happened at the end of the game. With five seconds left, the Hoyas scored to cut their deficit to two points. They had no timeouts left, and a Georgetown player slapped the ball away from Villanova. The official blew the whistle to stop the clock. (That was before the rules required the game clock to be stopped after scores in the last minute.) The officials warned Georgetown to leave the ball alone, but that forced Villanova to make a hotly contested throw-in with five seconds left rather than just let the clock run out. It managed the throw-in. But in an interview much later, one of the officials admitted they had been very lucky. By permitting Georgetown to “help” Villanova get the ball after a made basket, it set the stage for the slap of the ball at the end of the game and prompted the reflex whistle when it occurred. The official vowed never again to let even a friendly touch occur in any game he officiates. That is the right plan for all of us. Get the warning done early to prevent any temptations at a critical time and the need for a technical foul."
Call the DOG early!

[derwil]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

+1

+2

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Toren

I've seen it done several times in games. I generally tell them to leave the ball alone once. Then I whistle and give them an official delay of game warning. This is definitely an advantage for that team and the officials need to recognize it as such.

To clarify, are you saying you (in effect) give two warnings? An unofficial warning (tell them to leave the ball alone once) and then if they do it again, give an official DOG warning? Or are you saying you tell them to leave the ball alone and, at the same time, whistle and give the DOG warning?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Hartsy

Scoring team player recovers the made shot, walks the ball to the new trail official and hands it off. This is done regularly, even after the coach of the non-scoring team told the officials he didn't like it. In his view, it was done only to allow a few more seconds to set up a press.

The officiating crew allowed this to continue all game. I'm not sure I would have. Has anyone seen a similar scenario? How would you handle it?

I'd tell them once to knock it off, then issue the DOG warning, then T them.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I'd tell them once to knock it off, then issue the DOG warning, then T them.

Here's my thing. I'm okay with this procedure if it's a simple tip of the ball, the kind of thing that kids just do without thinking about it.

But if a kid is blatantly walking the ball to me, or tossing the ball away from the opponent, or where the kid will grab the ball and set it down on the ground so their opponent has to go pick it up, or anything that actually causes a delay in the game, and everyone can see it happen, I'm nipping it in the bud right there and issuing a DOG warning so everyone in the gym is on the same page.

The DOG warning is in there for a reason, and IMO should be used (the first time) when, you know, the opponent is deliberately delaying the game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Here's my thing. I'm okay with this procedure if it's a simple tip of the ball, the kind of thing that kids just do without thinking about it.

But if a kid is blatantly walking the ball to me, or tossing the ball away from the opponent, or where the kid will grab the ball and set it down on the ground so their opponent has to go pick it up, or anything that actually causes a delay in the game, and everyone can see it happen, I'm nipping it in the bud right there and issuing a DOG warning so everyone in the gym is on the same page.

The DOG warning is in there for a reason, and IMO should be used (the first time) when, you know, the opponent is deliberately delaying the game.

Benefit of the doubt on the first one goes to the (new) defense -- that's why they get the "informal" warning.

Benefit of the doubt after that goes to the (new) offense -- formal DOG warning.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Benefit of the doubt on the first one goes to the (new) defense -- that's why they get the "informal" warning.

Benefit of the doubt after that goes to the (new) offense -- formal DOG warning.

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, but why are you giving anyone the benefit of the doubt? That's what the DOG warning is for. We're not going to penalize you yet, we're going to give you the benefit of the doubt and give you a warning, but next time we're going to penalize it.

Giving an informal warning is basically giving a team two opportunities to delay the game.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Here's my thing. I'm okay with this procedure if it's a simple tip of the ball, the kind of thing that kids just do without thinking about it.

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here, but why are you giving anyone the benefit of the doubt? That's what the DOG warning is for. We're not going to penalize you yet, we're going to give you the benefit of the doubt and give you a warning, but next time we're going to penalize it.

Giving an informal warning is basically giving a team two opportunities to delay the game.

Why are you letting a player tip the ball? Is that because you're giving that team the benefit of the doubt? That this behavior is not advantageous.

You could easily stop that behavior by saying, leave the ball alone. Now if they continue to do it, you know it's a tactic that needs penalizing. If they stop, then you know it was just one player who probably didn't realize this action has consequences.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by Toren

Why are you letting a player tip the ball? Is that because you're giving that team the benefit of the doubt? That this behavior is not advantageous.

You could easily stop that behavior by saying, leave the ball alone. Now if they continue to do it, you know it's a tactic that needs penalizing. If they stop, then you know it was just one player who probably didn't realize this action has consequences.

A simple tip of the ball is not something that is usually going to delay the game. Like I said, I think most kids do it without realizing they're even doing it. Therefore I'm either going to ignore it, or just tell the player to leave the ball alone.

But a player who consciously walks the ball over to me or to my partner, or who intentionally bats the ball away from the opponent or sets the ball down on the ground is, by definition, causing a delay in the game.

By rule, it should be handled not with an informal warning, but with an official DOG warning. I'm simply wondering why some don't want to follow the procedure that's laid out in the rules for an act that delays the game.