K-State/West Virgina Almost Blarge

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

No, he asked the question, the same one I have asked before: When does a signal, or, in this case apparently, a partial signal, become binding? It is undisputed, I think, that in no other situation is a signal binding at all.
So when, and why, is it binding in this case?

A signal has been given once it has been received. If someone could tell you were indicating a block, you've given enough of it to be received. Likewise for a charge. When both signals has been sufficiently given in such that it was apparent what each person had, you are stuck with a blarge.

As for why it is the case in this situation, well, we've been through that before. Two judgments of the same play have been made and communicated. You can default to one or the other through some automatic protocol but that doesn't make the resulting call the right call. For that matter, it is probably so close that you could make a valid argument that either call was right.

[just another ref]

Good answer. Perhaps it will impress the jury. Now for the rebuttal.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Two judgments of the same play have been made and communicated.

So what? On any other play, the official can make a signal, then go with something else. If called upon for an explanation, it's simply, "I made a mistake, which I realized afterward." This can apply to either the signal or the call itself. Does this look good? Of course not. But it is a part of the human element.

You can default to one or the other through some automatic protocol but that doesn't make the resulting call the right call. For that matter, it is probably so close that you could make a valid argument that either call was right.

Nothing we do insures that any call is the right call. The only thing certain if you go with a blarge is that the wrong call is a part of the call.

[tjones1]

I saw it live...but didn't see what the outside official (can't remember if he was C or T) did.

However, a few seconds later you can see one of the officials saying to a player: "I never signaled block."

Not seeing it all, I have to believe him... he knows there's cameras all over the place. If he signaled block he wouldn't have a choice.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I saw it live...but didn't see what the outside official (can't remember if he was C or T) did.

However, a few seconds later you can see one of the officials saying to a player: "I never signaled block."

Not seeing it all, I have to believe him... he knows there's cameras all over the place. If he signaled block he wouldn't have a choice.

He brought his hands up and started to bring them down (to get the call correct) then realized his partner had a whistle. They probably came down 4 to five inches. The player on the floor who had been blocked saw it and thought he had earned the call. As soon as the signal came in for a charge he immediately went to that official pointing out the other official had called a block.

[twocentsworth]

this play illustrates a couple of things:

1) L should have the responsibility on drives to the basket. (it is ALWAYS easier to officiate a play coming toward you rather than moving away from you.)

2) On a drive to the basket, IF either outside official (C or T) have a whistle - you should "blow & hold". (use closed-fist to stop clock and see if L has a whistle prior to making your foul signal.)

3) Basketball is basketball regardless of the level....the same plays occur in every game and officials (even the best ones) make the same mistakes.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

this play illustrates a couple of things:

1) L should have the responsibility on drives to the basket. (it is ALWAYS easier to officiate a play coming toward you rather than moving away from you.)

2) On a drive to the basket, IF either outside official (C or T) have a whistle - you should "blow & hold". (use closed-fist to stop clock and see if L has a whistle prior to making your foul signal.)

3) Basketball is basketball regardless of the level....the same plays occur in every game and officials (even the best ones) make the same mistakes.

1) In our area, we've really been stressing that T or C should stay with a drive from one's PCA, all the way to the basket. And L can cover the secondary defenders.
2) I pre-game this ... "Let's not be too quick with the secondary signal -block/charge - I can put up the "stop clock/closed fist signal", and if you have a call, also, we can quickly sort it out and decide who takes it. This will overcome the "blarge", and send a message to all concerned that we are a crew, not two or three separate officials.
3) Agreed.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by youngump

He brought his hands up and started to bring them down (to get the call correct) then realized his partner had a whistle. They probably came down 4 to five inches. The player on the floor who had been blocked saw it and thought he had earned the call. As soon as the signal came in for a charge he immediately went to that official pointing out the other official had called a block.

Without seeing it is looks like he just dropped out of the play after realizing his partner had a call. At the college level they want to defer these calls more and more to the Lead official.

Peace

[APG]

If you give me a time for the play, I can put it up.

[MOofficial]

It will be in the second half and I'm looking at the play by play log and it's either going to be just before the 8:05 or 1:53 mark. Let me know if those turn up anything. If not I'll keep looking at the play by play log.