When the pregame doesnt carry over to the game

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tref

So... you pregamed that the train wreck in the paint with multiple bodies on the floor requires a whistle NOT the "get up" signal. Whether the call is right or wrong, we must make a call!

Play comes from the Cs side, wreck, no whistle. We talk about it on the next t/o & agree that a whistle was needed there.

Next time it happens in transition... again, no whistle.

I'm T on both plays, the 2nd one I hadnt made it to halfcourt yet. Do you all come with a late whistle from T to clean it up even though you had the 3rd best look? Or do you "let em live & die" with an incorrect no-call?

The real problem is making up absolutes like this -- bodies on the floor don't *always* mean there's a foul. Many times, sure...

Assuming there was one, I'm not coming in here. A single crash in the lane isn't the elephant on the court where I feel I have to save the day from the backcourt.

[tref]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The real problem is making up absolutes like this -- bodies on the floor don't *always* mean there's a foul.

Example please? Remember I'm talking block/charge plays to the rack not clumsy players tripping over each others feet.

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by tref

Example please? Remember I'm talking block/charge plays to the rack not clumsy players tripping over each others feet.

I see this all the time... Play to the lane minimal contact and the defense falls (and groans) as if he has been hit by a wrecking ball. One coach wants a block, the other wants a charge, but I have a no call.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The real problem is making up absolutes like this -- bodies on the floor don't *always* mean there's a foul. Many times, sure...

Assuming there was one, I'm not coming in here. A single crash in the lane isn't the elephant on the court where I feel I have to save the day from the backcourt.

+1.

I always grin and laugh on the inside when I hear an official say this.

[tref]

Originally Posted by berserkBBK

I see this all the time... Play to the lane minimal contact and the defense falls (and groans) as if he has been hit by a wrecking ball. One coach wants a block, the other wants a charge, but I have a no call.

Gotcha, only thing is both players hit the deck...

deecee: Glad I could provide you with a laugh, but I have yet to hear/see an example when both players go down & a no call is the correct call. Please share.

[truerookie]

Hey, try this one out next time. "If bodies go to the floor let make sure we know how they got there."

[deecee]

Originally Posted by tref

Gotcha, only thing is both players hit the deck...

deecee: Glad I could provide you with a laugh, but I have yet to hear/see an example when both players go down & a no call is the correct call. Please share.

Saying that if both players go down YOU MUST have a call, RIGHT or WRONG, is about as stupid a statement as one can make. I should know, I make stupid statements all the time.

There are times when contact is minimal and the defense flops and the offense might just land awkward, or trip or even try and flop themselves. If you and I were doing a game and you make that statement I would tell you that if you are going to blow a whistle based solely on some hypothetical absolute and fabricate a call, that may or may not exist, I would tell you that don't be prepared for me to defend you to the coaches.

Now if you tell me that in instances where we have multiple bodies hitting the ground we should make sure that we get a good look and if the contact appears severe that we not set a precedent and pass on this play, that's something else. But saying we must always have a foul called when multiple bodies hit the ground only lets me know that you must have been to a couple camps this summer and heard a few counselors and vets say this and you implied it to be an absolute.

[berserkBBK]

Originally Posted by tref

Gotcha, only thing is both players hit the deck...

Contact that I just described often will end up with the offensive player stumbling and sometime sprawling on the floor.
Both players on the floor is not always a foul.

Originally Posted by truerookie

Hey, try this one out next time. "If bodies go to the floor let make sure we know how they got there."

+1
Heard this a few times and this is a great way to put it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by tref

Whether the call is right or wrong, we must make a call!

Play comes from the Cs side, wreck, no whistle. We talk about it on the next t/o & agree that a whistle was needed there.

There's a LOT of difference between "A whistle was needed there," and "We must have a whistle," on any hypothetical play.

I'm T on both plays, the 2nd one I hadnt made it to halfcourt yet.

A whistle from the backcourt on a play in the paint in front of two partners is going to hurt your credibility as a crew more than getting one call right is going to help it.

jmo

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Hey, try this one out next time. "If bodies go to the floor let make sure we know how they got there."

I like this approach MUCH better.

I do not agree with "we MUST have a whistle" just because of the way a play looks.

One of my pet peeves is when coaches/fans say, "that's gotta be something." Yes it does have to be something, it's called basketball. It's a contact sport and sometimes contact occurs that is not a foul, on a some occasions even when players end up on the floor, as mentioned earlier.

If you know how players got the ground you can explain a no call in situations like this. A whistle for the sake of having one in this instance is poor officiating IMO.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The real problem is making up absolutes like this -- bodies on the floor don't *always* mean there's a foul. Many times, sure...

Assuming there was one, I'm not coming in here. A single crash in the lane isn't the elephant on the court where I feel I have to save the day from the backcourt.

In the state I work officials have been explicitly told there has to be a call made on a play like this, either block, charge or T. The head of officials in my state told people that at multiple state meetings across the state. He did not say it on the online presentation he made, however.

So in my state it is possible for a T to make this call if the others walked off on it, and the evaluator would not mark the T down for doing it.

After this statement is made, do you make the call or not in my state?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

In the state I work officials have been explicitly told there has to be a call made on a play like this, either block, charge or T. The head of officials in my state told people that at multiple state meetings across the state. He did not say it on the online presentation he made, however.

So in my state it is possible for a T to make this call if the others walked off on it, and the evaluator would not mark the T down for doing it.

After this statement is made, do you make the call or not in my state?

I do what I'm told. I probably, if asked by a coach, would say "Hey, I'm told by the state we have to have a foul there. Please take it up with them." In your state. I don't have to operate under such restrictions.

I frequently see minimal contact, a defender embellishing, and an offensive player stumbling over the defender. It's not a PC foul, it's not a block, it's not a travel -- it's two players going down for no good reason.

I'll see people making stuff up -- most often a travel (the perfect bail out call, I guess) or a block. I prefer to take every play at face value.

[Camron Rust]

The primary point the powers that be are making here is that there are too many of these plays that don't get a whistle that should. There are always a few that shouldn't be whistled, but they want fewer passes.

[Blindolbat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The primary point the powers that be are making here is that there are too many of these plays that don't get a whistle that should. There are always a few that shouldn't be whistled, but they want fewer passes.

Agreed. They also don't want the games to escalate to overly physical and to the point that players are mad and fights start.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'll see people making stuff up -- most often a travel (the perfect bail out call, I guess) or a block. I prefer to take every play at face value.

I do the same.

Peace