When the pregame doesnt carry over to the game

[tref]

So... you pregamed that the train wreck in the paint with multiple bodies on the floor requires a whistle NOT the "get up" signal. Whether the call is right or wrong, we must make a call!

Play comes from the Cs side, wreck, no whistle. We talk about it on the next t/o & agree that a whistle was needed there.

Next time it happens in transition... again, no whistle.

I'm T on both plays, the 2nd one I hadnt made it to halfcourt yet. Do you all come with a late whistle from T to clean it up even though you had the 3rd best look? Or do you "let em live & die" with an incorrect no-call?

[BayStateRef]

You have two partners in better position...who have primary responsibility for the paint. It is not your call.

If they didn't know what to call from their view, what are you going to do with your "third best look?"

I would certainly discuss it with them...but in the locker room. I also don't agree with your pregame: "Whether the call is right or wrong, make a call."

[fiasco]

What BayStateRef said. Probably shouldn't have pregamed that a call MUST be made, because you're not willing to come in as T and make the call.

Either be committed to what was talked about in pregame, or speak up during pregame if there's something you're not comfortable with or willing to do during the game.

Probably, the discussion should have been C or L "must" make a call with a trainwreck in the paint. There are some situations where even selling a call the best you can won't make any call look great from the T position.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You have two partners in better position...who have primary responsibility for the paint. It is not your call.

If they didn't know what to call from their view, what are you going to do with your "third best look?"

Exactly what I did, pass. Unfortunately I was tableside on both...

Originally Posted by fiasco

What BayStateRef said. Probably shouldn't have pregamed that a call MUST be made, because you're not willing to come in as T and make the call.

Why should I have to come from the T? I do believe that a call must be made in those situations! By the covering official(s) though. I'll add that piece to my pregame.

Originally Posted by fiasco

Either be committed to what was talked about in pregame, or speak up during pregame if there's something you're not comfortable with or willing to do during the game.

I did what was discussed in pregame, it just so happens that those particular plays didnt involve me.

Originally Posted by fiasco

Probably, the discussion should have been C or L "must" make a call with a trainwreck in the paint. There are some situations where even selling a call the best you can won't make any call look great from the T position.

I disagree, the T should stay engaged if the play comes from the T & they certainly can have a whistle as they had the SDF of the play.

Now if we're talking about the flat-foot, stuck in the mud, hugging the division line T, you sir, are absolutely correct

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tref

Why should I have to come from the T?

Because you pregamed that a call MUST be made. You didn't pregame that the C or L must make a call, you pregamed that a call must be made by SOMEONE. All three of you kicked the call based on your pregame, because none of you blew your whistle. You're no less at fault than the C or L.

I just don't like the idea of absolving yourself of responsibility when you agreed in the pregame to someone picking up the call in that situation. You three are a team, and you should all live and die with every call equally based on how you pregame it. It's no one's fault. It's everyone's fault.

[tref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

Because you pregamed that a call MUST be made. You didn't pregame that the C or L must make a call, you pregamed that a call must be made by SOMEONE. All three of you kicked the call based on your pregame, because none of you blew your whistle. You're no less at fault than the C or L.

Okaaaay
1. I didnt know the 6 year guy had to break down who that "someone" is for the 14 & 30+ year guys. I kinda tailor my pregames to my partners experience level.

2. Never blamed anyone, just trying to figure out which of the posters here would "come n get it."

3. If I say lets be prepared to adjudicate on GT & BI, do I have to say the C & T or is that common knowledge??

Originally Posted by fiasco

I just don't like the idea of absolving yourself of responsibility when you agreed in the pregame to someone picking up the call in that situation. You three are a team, and you should all live and die with every call equally based on how you pregame it. It's no one's fault. It's everyone's fault.

You're correct & WE, by far, were the best team on the court (other than those 2 plays) in the 47-44 ballgame where the last second shot came up just short.

I had to go back & read what I wrote! Again, I never tried to absolve myself from anything. As the crew chief on the game, I had to write the game report. Taking responsibility there, plus looking for and finding (thanks to you) a better way to word that particular part of my pregame the morning after is quite accountable.

[dsqrddgd909]

What was your partners' take? Did you have a post game?

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tref

Okaaaay
1. I didnt know the 6 year guy had to break down who that "someone" is for the 14 & 30+ year guys. I kinda tailor my pregames to my partners experience level.

2. Never blamed anyone, just trying to figure out which of the posters here would "come n get it."

3. If I say lets be prepared to adjudicate on GT & BI, do I have to say the C & T or is that common knowledge??



You're correct & WE, by far, were the best team on the court (other than those 2 plays) in the 47-44 ballgame where the last second shot came up just short.

I had to go back & read what I wrote! Again, I never tried to absolve myself from anything. As the crew chief on the game, I had to write the game report. Taking responsibility there, plus looking for and finding (thanks to you) a better way to word that particular part of my pregame the morning after is quite accountable.

I don't really understand what you're getting at. You threw out a lot of numbers and letters there that I didn't follow.

You said (paraphrased): We pregamed that we MUST have a call on a trainwreck in the paint. We had a trainwreck in the paint. No one blew their whistle. Should I have, even though I was trailing the play?

My answer is yes.

You replied by saying Why should I have to call from T?

My answer: Because that's what you pregamed.


If you don't like my answer, fine, but you asked for people's opinion. When you don't get the answer you want makes me think perhaps you shouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tref

Okaaaay


3. If I say lets be prepared to adjudicate on GT & BI, do I have to say the C & T or is that common knowledge??

Well, you know what happens when you assume.

I always pregame last shot. And when I pregame last shot, I make sure to mention that T has good/no good on last shot and L has to help out on contact (2-man). Yes, I mention the positions specifically.

Better to be specific and get it right than be general and assume everyone knows what you're talking about.

[Toren]

I would say no do not come in and get it from the 3rd best look. I would also say in the t/o that you shouldn't have discussed what should have happened, or perhaps just quickly, but reiterate that it cannot happen again.

Good thing this is early season and we can work and fix the things we would want fixed before the games become even more important.

[tref]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

What was your partners' take? Did you have a post game?

Yes we had post-game & I also told them I would mail them a copy of the film.
Each of them just said they wish they could get those plays back... no biggie! We spoke like men & moved on. As a matter of fact I didnt even have to bring it up, which is always nice.

Originally Posted by fiasco

I don't really understand what you're getting at. You threw out a lot of numbers and letters there that I didn't follow.

Come on fiasco, should an official in their 6th season have to explain who the calling official(s) are on block/charge plays in the paint when it comes from the Cs side to partners that are in their 14th & 30+ seasons

Originally Posted by fiasco

You said (paraphrased): We pregamed that we MUST have a call on a trainwreck in the paint. We had a trainwreck in the paint. No one blew their whistle. Should I have, even though I was trailing the play?My answer is yes.

I didnt ask anyone here for personal advice regarding this play, this is what I asked:

Originally Posted by tref

Do you all come with a late whistle from T to clean it up even though you had the 3rd best look? Or do you "let em live & die" with an incorrect no-call?

Originally Posted by fiasco

If you don't like my answer, fine, but you asked for people's opinion. When you don't get the answer you want makes me think perhaps you shouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

Not that I dont like your answer (as if it means anything to me & where I work) I dont like you changing my questions. How bout that?

Originally Posted by fiasco

Better to be specific and get it right than be general and assume everyone knows what you're talking about.

Do you talk about where to stand on t/o too
Around these parts, you dont come with an elementary pregame with savvy vets. If you dont know who has the last second shot at this level, then you shouldn't be out there! If you dont know who makes GT/BI calls, then you shouldn't be out there! If you dont know who makes block/charge calls in the paint from the Cs side...
When facilitating the pregame with guys that are respected vets & we've all worked together previously, we talk about plays & how we are going to deal with them.

Originally Posted by Toren

I would say no do not come in and get it from the 3rd best look. I would also say in the t/o that you shouldn't have discussed what should have happened, or perhaps just quickly, but reiterate that it cannot happen again.

Good thing this is early season and we can work and fix the things we would want fixed before the games become even more important.

Again, I'm not asking for anyones advice on what tref should or shouldn't have done. The question began with, "do you" NOT "what should I have done."
Hell, I barely apply unsolicited advice from the people I see face-to-face (unless they've hired me) so why am I asking people over the internet that I have never seen work.

FTR, the t/o came like 3 minutes after the no-call & I like to adjust on the fly when applicable. Now if the coach got a t/o right after that play, yes, no conference because everyone knows exactly what we're talking about.

[26 Year Gap]

I see the problem, tref. You are arguing with fiasco.

[Toren]

Let me rephrase

I do not come on as the T with the 3rd best look as I feel I compound the problem and then it also looks like I didn't trust my partners (which lets face it, that's exactly what my whistle is saying).

Especially in transition, they are livin n dying with their no calls.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Toren

Let me rephrase

I do not come on as the T with the 3rd best look as I feel I compound the problem and then it also looks like I didn't trust my partners (which lets face it, that's exactly what my whistle is saying).

Especially in transition, they are livin n dying with their no calls.

Toren I can dig it!

I just hope when it happens to you that you're opposite table. I had to hear IT from both coaches on our way to the other end. I just ran really fast to the endline
I thought it would be a poor decision to whack either one as I agreed with their thoughts.


26 Year Gap: Point taken

[Smitty]

You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Which is the lesser of two evils:

• Doing nothing and getting an earful from the coaches - one of which will love you and the other will rip you a new one for calling something you had the worst look at of the three of you
• Blowing it from 30 feet away when you had the worst look at it and there are two other guys right in front of it

You're going to catch hell either way. Personally, I am leaving it alone when the two guys right in front of the play have passed on it.