Mike Barnicle article

[Dan_ref]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/col/...8p-70958c.html

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/col/...8p-70958c.html

I've played, I've parented, I've coached, and I've umped in Little League.

Barnicle's article seems to be merely the cynical result of a personal problem.

It's easier to start trouble than it is to repair it.

mick

[wizard]

Mick,
Are you saying that Barnicle is wrong? He's definitely not bringing up something that hasn't been beaten into the ground. His points do have merit.

Having played, parented, coached, and umped in Little League as well, I don't think he's saying that every parent and coach is like that. But many coaches are.

As for a solution, I don't have one as well. Other than coaches, leagues and parents getting on the same page before the season. If the goal is to win, and parents and players (remember them?) don't care as much about winning at all cost, they should find a team that fits them better. But I realize that's not an easy thing to do.

[mick]

Originally posted by wizard
Mick,
Are you saying that Barnicle is wrong?

No. I did not say It doesn't happen.
But, if I consider all the youth games going on in so many different sports, I conclude that the worth of Barnicle's writing is to emphasize negativity within the sport.
While he pompously preaches participation, and learning how to lose and laugh, who teaches teams to triumph, and that working to win is a craft?

[theboys]

I agree with you, Wizard. This topic has been beaten into the ground. But, its still one I wonder about often. As we old folks often say, "when I was a kid..." there was no such thing as Travel Baseball and Elite Soccer and AAU basketball at ten years old. Over the years, we, as a society, have become so obsessed with sports, that our children have a difficult time playing "recreational" sports anymore.

As a parent of a "reasonably gifted" athlete, the most difficult decision is how far to let it go. You want your child to have every opportunity to succeed, but not at the cost of their self-esteem or adolescent development. You have to decide if letting your kid just play "rec" ball means he or she will have a lower probability of making the school team later in life. And, if that's important or not. We used to ridicule the Soviets for directing 5-6 year old children into specific programs, but, more and more, it seems like we're doing similar things, on a lesser scale.

Ultimately, for me, as long as my child is enjoying himself and the environment is positive physically and mentally, I'll allow him to continue his pursuit.

Sorry for the length. Thanks for readin'.

[wizard]

Originally posted by theboys
As a parent of a "reasonably gifted" athlete, the most difficult decision is how far to let it go.

And there are many variables that come into play. How much does he want to win? Or is playing with his friends just as important? How many games and travel is involved? How much practice? To me this is the most important. I've seen too many select basketball and baseball players not really develop as youngster because of not enough practice. Thses players usually are natural athletes and can play games with little instruction. But enthusiastic parents and coaches schedule too many games. That doesn't allow correction of game situations, among other things. And this is coming from a guy who benefits from officiating a lot of these extra games. In the long run, this doesn't allow they play to do succeed. Unless he or she is so physically gifted that it masks his fundamental shortcomings. (see: Eddie Curry, for example)

Good luck with your athlete. And remember the title of Pete Carill's outstanding book, "The Smart Take from the Strong".

[theboys]

Thanks for the input, Wiz. I understand completely where you're coming from. My son played on a travel baseball team at age 10. Ten! They played 52 games between March and the end of May. Way too much. Not only for the kids, but for the families, as well.

Your comment about fundamentals reminds me of something one of my coaches once told me. It went something like:

Learning a sport is like a series of hills and plateaus. As you learn a skill, you climb a hill. Once the skill is mastered you reach a plateau. To build new skills, you have to climb higher hills. At some point, if you haven't mastered the fundamental skills, you reach a plateau you can't get beyond. And, people who have mastered the fundamentals will climb right on past you.

[wizard]

Originally posted by theboys
Thanks for the input, Wiz. I understand completely where you're coming from. My son played on a travel baseball team at age 10. Ten! They played 52 games between March and the end of May. Way too much. Not only for the kids, but for the families, as well.

You mean to tell me you wife doesn't like to spend her entire weekend driving for hours then sitting through doubleheaders? (LOL) And younger siblings don't exactly enjoy sitting through older brother's baseball games either.

52 games in the spring sounds like a lot of rainouts and last minute reschedules. I love my kids, but I've got stuff around the house to do.

You're not missing anything. Well done. And I'll return your quote. Someone once told me, "If you have fundamentals, you'll never embarass yourself."

One more thing.
http://www.dailyherald.com/search/ma...?intid=3773047

Hopefully this isn't you. (LOL)

[theboys]

Not me - but Jerry Springer might want to meet him.

[Hawks Coach]

1) Author is right that there are too many parents who care a little too much and get a little too involved in what is going on with their kid's team. And the parents can be a nightmare to the point that you cut a parent rather than a kid - I have done it and will do it even quicker in the future. These parents are poison to a team and to youth sports in general. And, like a Greek tragedy, in trying so hard to help their kids, they wind up doing more harm than good and their kids do not benefit.

2) Author is wrong in that he is listening to a guy that sounds to me likehe is a coach rather than a parent (granted he may be both). If you coach a serious level of play, the kind of issues he is talking about come up. It's wrong to criticize this guy just based on his physical appearance. Author doesn't know him. It's not like Don Zimmer looks like a baseball player, but nobody says anything about him coaching. This guy could have been a four-year three-sport letterman 20 years ago but let himself go.

I deal with a coupple of the issues that the author criticizes this coach for addressing. We are an 8th grade AAU team with a couple of players who would normally be cut, but I kept them because this is probably their last season with our club and they have 3 years playing in the club. We have advanced, they have not - they work hard, but are limited in their potential for athletics. I have to constantly try to find ways to get these kids on the court while allowing a high level team to play competitively in high level games against superior competition. And I am looking for those weaker teams as an opportunity to play my lower level players who can't run with the best teams we play.

I also have ongoing discussions about the "mechanics" of some of my best players, and their ups and downs. They go through slumps, they struggle with confidence, they make a consistent fundamental mistake, etc. And I have to discuss these things with my fellow coaches. And that is my role as a coach. That's what these kids need from me if they are going to play college ball, and some of them have that potential.

I didn't read much in that one side of a phone conversation that differed from many conversations I have had, and think I have a pretty good perspective on how to balance winning and player devleopment. And I agree with Mick - teaching high level athletes how to win is part of player development, just as is teaching them the rules, sportsmanship, and fundamentals of their sport.

[Hawks Coach]

We passed 50 games this year a while ago - looking at 80-90 that I will have coached from fall league in September to the end of nationals in July, a new annual high. Our first full year we played about 70 games, last year we hit 80. And some of my players have been at nearly every game this year - it is a HUGE commitment. But at least 5 of my players will have a chance at a college hoops scholarship, something that would not have been possible without this work they have done the past few years.

And those that don't go on in hoops may have opportunities in other competitive sports due to what they have learned through hoops. My son is excelling at the team play aspect of lacrosse because he has played so much bball and soccer that he has great field vision and anticipation of the play. He is earning PT not because of fundamentals (he is still learning) but because of his feel for that type of game. All of my girls players will bring that to any athletic team they join.