Restricting with whom you may officiate . . .

[JeffTheRef]

Do the 'Boards' you belong to seek to impose restrictions on with whom you may officiate? Some IAABO Boards, I have heard, seek to do this, though the IAABO Constitution says only, under Section 12, Rights of Members: "Members may . . . officiate with other members of this Association."

TIA

[JRutledge]

Why in the world would they do that?

Peace

[JeffTheRef]

In an attempt to control the marketplace. Believe me, it certain N.E. states, an attempt is made . . .

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
In an attempt to control the marketplace. Believe me, it certain N.E. states, an attempt is made . . .

This just shows how crazy (in my opinion) officiating can be across this country. And especially in the Eastern part of the country where IAABO seems to be dominate. I mean can you guys take a s**t without the approval of IAABO?

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by JeffTheRef
Do the 'Boards' you belong to seek to impose restrictions on with whom you may officiate? Some IAABO Boards, I have heard, seek to do this, though the IAABO Constitution says only, under Section 12, Rights of Members: "Members may . . . officiate with other members of this Association."

I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you mean "who you may work FOR?" Do you mean that if I'm working for the Northshore Board, which assigns certain games in certain leagues, am I also allowed to work for the Southbeach Board which assigns different leagues?

[ChuckElias]

I believe that the IAABO consitution or by-laws stipulate that IAABO officials may not officiate with non-IAABO officials. We had a big discussion about this when we started officiating girls' games, b/c the girls' board is not an IAABO board. We never really resolved the issue, but personally, if I am scheduled to work with a non-IAABO official, I wear a shirt without my IAABO patch.

Chuck

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I believe that the IAABO consitution or by-laws stipulate that IAABO officials may not officiate with non-IAABO officials. We had a big discussion about this when we started officiating girls' games, b/c the girls' board is not an IAABO board. We never really resolved the issue, but personally, if I am scheduled to work with a non-IAABO official, I wear a shirt without my IAABO patch.

Chuck

Well I belong to an association that allows us to pay dues to become a IAABO member. If those that choose to pay are members and adhered to that by-law, then they would not ever work a game. That is a silly rule and I guess the folk in the East think it makes since. No wonder we are losing officials all over the place.

Peace

[JeffTheRef]

The IAABO Constitution says only, under Section 12, Rights of Members: "Members may . . . officiate with other members of this Association." That is not the same thing as saying Members may not officiate with members of other Boards, or those who are not members of no board at all.

This doesn't even make it to the right-to-work level. Associations are not unions. The only control they might properly exert, in my Constituationally informed opinion, is that, if the association is acting as the contractor in assigning the games, well, then, it can do what it damn well pleases, as long as it satisfies its employer. In States where Boards don't do the assigning, it is not for them to decide . . .

But there are those who would obfuscate . . . and, in some States, if you want to be a tournament official, you may have to pay a fee to the State association, a separate issue.

[Nevadaref]

Having started with an IAABO board and not working for one now, I have seen both sides of this. I can say that in the DC area, basketball officiating is done in a very competitive environment. Not only do the individual officials compete for games, but the local IAABO boards compete with other local associations of officials for contracts with the different high school leagues. One example is the Catholic league which includes DeMatha.
In order to get and/or keep these contracts the associations strive to provide the best service to these schools. Therefore, they recruit, train, and attempt to retain quality officials. This is all done to show the schools that a certain organization is better than others and should be chosen to provide their required service.

Now if these officials took what they learned and the experience they gained with a certain association and then went to work for someone else they would raise the quality of this other group while simultaneously lowering the quality of the former one. Enough of these defections and suddenly a strong competing organization exists and the risk of losing contracts becomes very real.
IAABO is simply trying to hold down competition. This is no different than what is done in other form of business. One may not agree with this tactic, but let's not forget that the world of sports officiating is afterall a business and officials form associations, just as dock workers form unions, in order to have the necessary leverage to negotiate contracts and game fees. Obviously, the highest fees would be acheived if a group eliminated all competition. So this is what IAABO is striving for. When one views the situation this way it makes perfect sense.

Of course, in order for this idea to work the group must avoid inner turmoil. Those in power must see to this. For as we all know, when officials don't get the schedule that they want or believe they deserve, they become upset. If enough officials become dissatisfied and cannot fix the situation from within, through elections or talks, they may bolt and suddenly we have competition again.

[RecRef]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Having started with an IAABO board and not working for one now, I have seen both sides of this. I can say that in the DC area, basketball officiating is done in a very competitive environment.

Make that the DC area minus Virginia. The way I understand the situation is that the VHSL does not recognize IAABO as a governing body. A VHSL association may be an IAABO board but the association has to follow VHSL rules and guidelines when there is a disagreement between the rules and guidelines. One has to pass the VHSL/NF test to ref in VA, the IAABO does not count.

Not being a lawyer I do wonder how such a requirement would fly in the face of VirginiaÂ’s Right To Work law.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by RecRef

Make that the DC area minus Virginia. The way I understand the situation is that the VHSL does not recognize IAABO as a governing body. A VHSL association may be an IAABO board but the association has to follow VHSL rules and guidelines when there is a disagreement between the rules and guidelines. One has to pass the VHSL/NF test to ref in VA, the IAABO does not count.

Not being a lawyer I do wonder how such a requirement would fly in the face of VirginiaÂ’s Right To Work law.

I'm sure you know much more about officiating basketball in VA than I do, so without disputing anything you say, I'll just add a few comments.
1. A few private schools in northern Virginia do not use the VHSL officials. They use IAABO bd. 12 officials. Paul VI and Espiscopal are two of which I can name for certain that do this. I'm not a lawyer either, so I have no idea how this fits with the right to work law! But I can say that I have worked games at both of these schools while never being a Virginia resident.
2. Every IAABO board I've ever been around uses the NFHS test not some other IAABO test for certifying officials. It is true that IAABO produces a refresher exam and distributes this each year, but it is not used for anything other than review and study.
3. I also can't imagine that there are disagreements between the VHSL rules and those that an IAABO association teaches. This is because IAABO simply reprints the NFHS books (rules, case, mechanics, etc.) in their IAABO handbook along with their directory, constitution, and other administrative stuff that is sent to each member. As far as I know, it's the exact same words. They don't have different IAABO rules, they use NFHS. As I said in an earlier post I do not work for an IAABO association now, and I haven't come across a single thing that is different.
I do recall one of the vets writing something in another thread on this board about how IAABO used to interpret simultaneous fouls differently than the board he worked for. That is possible. Items that are vague or unclear in the rules and casebook are open to interpretation by all officials. It seems IAABO just made a decision of how they would call it and publicized that. However, whatever is clear or explicitly stated in the NFHS rules is definitely used by IAABO at the high school level. Also, I believe that if a new casebook or rules change came out that was contrary to an IAABO interp, that they would change their stance and follow the NFHS. This should be the case with the simultaneous fouls now.
Of course, we all know that under NFHS rules any state association may make modifications to the national high school rules (shot clock, 10-sec rule, 5 sec., etc.) So it is highly likely that anything the VHSL does that is different from IAABO is also different from NFHS in other states. Those who officiate in Virginia, IAABO affiliated or not, simply follow what the Virginia state association says.

4. Lastly, here are the associations that are listed on the IAABO website as being in Virginia (the number in parentheses is the IAABO bd. #):

Cardinal Basketball Officials Association (255)
Territory - Northern Virginia
President - Ron Williams
Vice-President - Cecil Hurst
Interpreter - Ponce Gerald
Treasurer - Joe Salcetti
Secretary - Nick Atalla (email [email protected])



Central Virginia Basketball Officials Association, Inc.(90) Territory - Central Virgina
President - Gerry Regetz
Vice-President - Leonard Lambert
Interpreter - Jerry Stone
Secretary-Treasurer - Bert Wilson


Peninsula District Board (125)
Territory - Newport News, Hampton, Suffolk, Williamsburg, Gloucester, Isle of Wight, James City, West Point, Mathew, Middlesex, New Kent, Surry and King and Queen Counties
President - Robert Howard
Vice-President - Whit Rutter
Interpreter - Steve Panoff
Treasurer - Tom McDonald
Secretary - Cornelius Chambliss



Southeastern Virginia Basketball Officials Association (94)
Territory - Counties of Isle of Wight, Northampton, and Southampton; Cities of Chesapeake, Norfolk, Portsmouth, Suffolk, and Virginia Beach
President - Rick Ennis
President-Elect - Todd Magee
Vice-President - Chuck Shumate
Interpreter - Charlie Woodson
Treasurer - Larry Jochum
Secretary - Dick Bowie



Tidewater Basketball Officials Association (225)
Territory - Tidewater, Virginia
President - Priest Green
Vice-President - Kai Armstrong
Interpreter - Danny Doss
Secretary-Treasurer - Jimmie S. Allen

I also seem to remember a board 134 or something like that, which was in northern Va. a few years ago, don't know what happened to it, if anything.

I'm sure we have officials on this forum that work for these boards. If you guys are out there please post here and tell us how things work in your area!

[dblref]

Nevadaref: Your information regarding Cardinal is a little out of date regarding association directors. This is the update:

President: Dave Felker
Vice President: Ray Lukowicz
Interpreter: Adam Brick (Acting)
Treasurer: Joe Salcetti
Secretary: Ed Smith
Scholastic Commissioner: Cecil Hurst
Assistant: Larry Money
Rec Commissioner: Chris Vail

Other information is at: http://www.cboa.org

[brianp134]

IAABO 134 is alive and well, our terrority is in Prince George's county, MD.

[RecRef]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nevadaref
[B]

Originally posted by RecRef

1. A few private schools in northern Virginia do not use the VHSL officials. They use IAABO bd. 12 officials. Paul VI and Espiscopal are two of which I can name for certain that do this. I'm not a lawyer either, so I have no idea how this fits with the right to work law! But I can say that I have worked games at both of these schools while never being a Virginia resident.

Cardinal Basketball Officials Association (255)

Well Noooo, I did a numer of games at Espicopal and other private league schools this year as a member of Cardinal. Now FWIW, I do hold a current IAABO card but I know that many of my partners do not. All of us are VHSL officials but we did not wear our patches as it was not a VSHL game.
Things have changes since you have been here.

Thanks dblref for posting the correct list of officers.

[dblref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RecRef
[B]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Well Noooo, I did a numer of games at Espicopal and other private league schools this year as a member of Cardinal. Now FWIW, I do hold a current IAABO card but I know that many of my partners do not. All of us are VHSL officials but we did not wear our patches as it was not a VSHL game.
Things have changes since you have been here.

Thanks dblref for posting the correct list of officers.

You're welcome. Are you working the AAU stuff this weekend? I will be at Westfields on Saturday at 4:00 and 6:00. Can't work this Sunday. Don't know who my partner is yet -- Chris called me this morning.