New Referee on the town -- need advice

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tref

Even if you're the L with all ten players running motion above the FT line extended & there was an obvious foul that your partner no-called because they didnt position adjust?

Also, isnt the object of the basketball officiating to referee your primary matchup(s) while seeing as many of the other players as possible?

I hate discussing plays when partners get all defensive about their incorrect no-calls & resort to "you shouldn't have been looking there in the first place."

IMO, the game has changed & so has refereeing, the let em live & die mentality on obvious fouls is of the past. Get the play right with a proper cadence whistle is where todays game is at.

Not directed to you, but I find that most officials with that mindset dont attend camps to get the updated information anymore nor are they big on effectively breaking down game film.

50 feet away is beyond the division line on most high school courts if you are the lead, and if something happens right in front of my partner, unless it's a non-basketball play, I can see no reason to go get it.

If all players are above the free throw line then you better be officiating hard in secondary coverage areas to help your partner who should be officiating on-ball.

It's not an either-or scenario. Watch what needs to be watched based on the situation at hand. Especially in a two-man game there is rarely a time when both sets of eyes should be on the same matchup.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

50 feet away is beyond the division line on most high school courts if you are the lead, and if something happens right in front of my partner, unless it's a non-basketball play, I can see no reason to go get it.

In fact, 50 is in the backcourt on ALL courts.....NBA/NCAA courts are only 94' long....division line at 47'.

And if all 10 players are that far out and beyond, the lead better not be below the endline....and 50 feet away.

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If all players are above the free throw line then you better be officiating hard in secondary coverage areas to help your partner who should be officiating on-ball.

It's not an either-or scenario. Watch what needs to be watched based on the situation at hand. Especially in a two-man game there is rarely a time when both sets of eyes should be on the same matchup.

Agreed....IF all 10 players are that far away, you still have 6-7 of them that you should be covering. Only 3-4 of them are on-ball....trail has those, the lead gets the rest no matter how far away they are.

[tref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

50 feet away is beyond the division line on most high school courts if you are the lead, and if something happens right in front of my partner, unless it's a non-basketball play, I can see no reason to go get it.

On North-South plays yes, but the court is 50 feet wide too.
Lets just say your C has been known to follow the flight of the pretty ball on 3 point attempts. You knowing this fact at the T, so you keep an eye on his airborne shooters. *BOOM* Crash with 2 players lying on the floor, you see the shooked look in his eyes as they shift from watching the ball rip the twine to the players lying beside him. He then gives the "get-up" signal as many of the posers who miss that call do. I'm putting a whistle on it!!

Originally Posted by jdw3018

If all players are above the free throw line then you better be officiating hard in secondary coverage areas to help your partner who should be officiating on-ball.

I thought thats what I already said...

Originally Posted by jdw3018

It's not an either-or scenario. Watch what needs to be watched based on the situation at hand. Especially in a two-man game there is rarely a time when both sets of eyes should be on the same matchup.

Having 2 man -errr- 2 person crews is a crime & should be treated as such!
With the speed & skill of todays players having that 3rd is very crucial as many plays require 2 officials to be on the play. Yeah team officiating... to some it may be a new concept. But its true!!

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by tref

Having 2 man -errr- 2 person crews is a crime & should be treated as such!

Tell me about it. I'm in my third year in a state where 90% of my officiating is 2-man (only the largest two classes get 3-man crews here) after three years in a state where everything was 3-man and I'm still adjusting.

It's frustrating to know there are plays in a 2-man game that, no matter how hard and well you and your partner are working, are going to be impossible to get with 100% certainty. There are always going to be a few of these, but they're common place in a 2-man game.

Hate it.

[tref]

Yeah, we had a major big school league go from 3 to 2 this season.

I've begun working on replies for when they start b1tching about this isnt being called & we missed that.

"With the speed & skill level of the players in _______ this game really deserves 3 officials on it."

"You're absolutely right & you guys voted for this floor coverage!"

Level headed guys get #1 & idiots get #2.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tref

Having 2 man -errr- 2 person crews is a crime & should be treated as such!
With the speed & skill of todays players having that 3rd is very crucial as many plays require 2 officials to be on the play. Yeah team officiating... to some it may be a new concept. But its true!!

I'm not grasping your point in saying 2-man is a crime and should be treated as such.

Yes, 3-man officiating is better, but in most cases, it's not as if those working on a 2-man crew have a choice in the matter.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm not grasping your point in saying 2-man is a crime and should be treated as such.

Yes, 3-man officiating is better, but in most cases, it's not as if those working on a 2-man crew have a choice in the matter.

He's being dramatic to make his point (with which I agree). Obviously we rarely have the ability to dictate whether we work 2- or 3-man.

It's a "crime" that some leagues only allow for 2-man crews.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

He's being dramatic to make his point (with which I agree). Obviously we rarely have the ability to dictate whether we work 2- or 3-man.

It's a "crime" that some leagues only allow for 2-man crews.

Gotcha...

[tref]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I'm not grasping your point in saying 2-man is a crime and should be treated as such.

Yes, 3-man officiating is better, but in most cases, it's not as if those working on a 2-man crew have a choice in the matter.

You dont grasp many things that are discussed here fiasco... j/k



Thats where you're wrong, we are independent contractors & we either accept or decline assignments.
I'll tell you what, if my 16 games with 2 person in this particular big school league (that has more than enough money to buy the 3rd) doesnt go well this season, next year I plan on telling the assignors "if it aint THREE dont pick ME" as many of the others have obviously done this year.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tref

"if it aint THREE dont pick ME"

Interesting. So are you suggesting that someone who lives in a state or association that does only 2-man just...what...sit out in protest and not work any games?

In other words, your philosophy may work fine for you, but it's not realistic for many officials.

[tref]

No no no, not saying that, never said anything like that.

If the entire State is 2 person, what can you do?? Work those games, get better & hope to move up to college ball.

Just speaking for myself. All of our majors have 3 person crews (except the one switching back this season) & some of our 3As have 3 person as well, depending on who you're working for. If all we had was 2s & I wasnt so spoiled by getting 3s early on, I wouldn't know any different & I probably still couldn't wait til game night!

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by tref

No no no, not saying that, never said anything like that.

Let's be perfectly clear.

I said:

in most cases, it's not as if those working on a 2-man crew have a choice in the matter.

to which you said

Thats where you're wrong, we are independent contractors & we either accept or decline assignments.

My point still stands. It's not as cut and dry as just saying "if you don't like it, don't accept the game."

You may have a choice, but for a lot of officials, it's not really a choice at all. You do the games you get assigned, or you don't get assigned any more games.

[Newbie-ref]

UPDATE -- UPDATE -- UPDATE --

OK.. I've done a retry. Did somewhat better then the previous day. This applys to a 2 man ref team. What was the best position for the lead ref. I was told to "stay out of the key" and don't lean while watching, relax. use your eyes.

My big struggle is lead position. What are the ABC's of it. Thank you in advance.

Newbie-ref.

Won't be able to do 3 man ref for a long while

[Newbie-ref]

Here is my goal setting.. what do you think.

1. work on mechanics, using trail and lead position on 2 man. 3 man later on.
2. don't lean while watching. May not get a good angle of the players.
3. don't watch the ball, watch the player. (unless you need to look for a 3 pt shot, etc.)
4. always communicate with your partner.


Once those have been accomplished, I could work on
1. Know the difference when person travels, double dribble, palm/carry

Well.. thats all I can think of out of the top of my head.

Just working a small step at a time. I was told pick 2 goals short term. Once you accomplished, get better, then choose next 2-3 new goals.
Happy hollidays.

Newbie-ref.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Newbie-ref

....don't lean while watching, relax. use your eyes.

Never heard this one before. I guess I get it, but this seems like somewhat a matter of individual posture.