Another problem with the new backcourt rule?

[Scrapper1]

Just going over Rule 9 and noticed 9-9-2 now says:

While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from the backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt.

The underlined part was added this year to compensate (yet again) for the new team control rules. However, does this now contradict the age-old "three points in the frontcourt" rule for a dribbler?

If I'm dribbling from backcourt to frontcourt, and I dribble the ball so that it touches the frontcourt but I'm still in the backcourt, doesn't this new rule say that I've committed a backcourt violation? I have player control (I'm dribbling a live ball) in my backcourt, and I've caused the ball to go to the frontcourt and then back to the backcourt without being touched by another player.

[Rufus]

Don't think the new rule changed 4-4-1:

A ball which is in contact with a player or with the court is in the backcourt if either the ball or the player (either player if the ball is touching more than one) is touching the backcourt.

More directly, and though you address it, the status of the ball doesn't change to frontcourt for purposes of the rule according to 4-4-6:

During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court entirely in the frontcourt.

Since the ball is never established in the frontcourt according to the above I don't think it contradicts the new wording.

[APG]

No contradiction...you never caused the ball to go into the frontcourt by virtue of you being a dribbler which means the ball is in the frontcourt only when both feet and the ball are in the frontcourt.

[Raymond]

The 3-points rule means that in this situation the ball has not yet attained FC status.

[deecee]

Scrapper I think you are over thinking this. the three point rule still applies.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

No contradiction...you never caused the ball to go into the frontcourt by virtue of you being a dribbler which means the ball is in the frontcourt only when both feet and the ball are in the frontcourt.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The 3-points rule means that in this situation the ball has not yet attained FC status.

Notice, though, that it doesn't say that the ball must gain frontcourt status. It just says backcourt to frontcourt. While dribbling, the ball can clearly go into the frontcourt without having frontcourt status.

Originally Posted by deecee

Scrapper I think you are over thinking this. the three point rule still applies.

1) I'm clearly overthinking it. I don't even have a scrimmage until next week, so I have to do something.

2) The 3-points rule still applies, but (maybe) only because they've told us to ignore the actual wording of the rules when they cause a contradiction with how certain plays were called last year.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Notice, though, that it doesn't say that the ball must gain frontcourt status. It just says backcourt to frontcourt. While dribbling, the ball can clearly go into the frontcourt without having frontcourt status.

And how does the ball go from backcourt to frontcourt? The rule has always read that way except with the added part about player control...if you really read it the way you are, you'd be calling this a violation in the past.The only way it does so while a player is dribbling the ball is if all three points are in the frontcourt. Otherwhise, in your scenario, the ball is in the backcourt by rule.

[asdf]

What new backcourt rule ??

What's so hard about the following...

The rule change adding team control during a throw in only affects the administration of fouls committed during the throw in. It has no affect on existing frontcourt-backcourt, three seconds, or traveling/dribbling violations.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by asdf

What new backcourt rule ??

What's so hard about the following...

The rule change adding team control during a throw in only affects the administration of fouls committed during the throw in. It has no affect on existing frontcourt-backcourt, three seconds, or traveling/dribbling violations.

The comments on the changes say that, but the rules that got changed actually say otherwise. The new team control rules (as actually written) create several new violations that didn't exist before. But the comments provided with them say that those things are not actually violations.

So, in a few years, we'll be having an argument about the rules where one person will accuse others of making up their own rules and will insist that they should be called as they're written while another person will be arguing on the side of intent and purpose of the rule.

Anything that depends on team control is affected....the 3 second count, 10 second count, over-and-back.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

And how does the ball go from backcourt to frontcourt?

Player A1 holding tha ball in the B/C near the D/L bounce passes the ball with english on it, into the F/C and then back into the B/C where his teammate A2 catches the passed ball?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Mregor

Player A1 holding tha ball in the B/C near the D/L bounce passes the ball with english on it, into the F/C and then back into the B/C where his teammate A2 catches the passed ball?

My question was directed toward Scrapper1 and to how a ball goes from the the backcourt to the frontcourt while dribbling...all 3 points being in the frontcourt....which went back to my first post in the thread.