Another problem with the new backcourt rule?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by asdf

What new backcourt rule ??

What's so hard about the following...

The rule change adding team control during a throw in only affects the administration of fouls committed during the throw in. It has no affect on existing frontcourt-backcourt, three seconds, or traveling/dribbling violations.

The comments on the changes say that, but the rules that got changed actually say otherwise. The new team control rules (as actually written) create several new violations that didn't exist before. But the comments provided with them say that those things are not actually violations.

So, in a few years, we'll be having an argument about the rules where one person will accuse others of making up their own rules and will insist that they should be called as they're written while another person will be arguing on the side of intent and purpose of the rule.

Anything that depends on team control is affected....the 3 second count, 10 second count, over-and-back.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The comments on the changes say that, but the rules that got changed actually say otherwise. The new team control rules (as actually written) create several new violations that didn't exist before. But the comments provided with them say that those things are not actually violations.

So, in a few years, we'll be having an argument about the rules where one person will accuse others of making up their own rules and will insist that they should be called as they're written while another person will be arguing on the side of intent and purpose of the rule.

Anything that depends on team control is affected....the 3 second count, 10 second count, over-and-back.

Let 'em "fix" them next year.

Meanwhile, let's not shoot foul shots when a foul is committed on a throw in and officiate everthing else like we always have, instead of having people call violations on that were never intended to be called as violations.

Spirit and Intent.... It's not that hard !!

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by asdf

Let 'em "fix" them next year.

Meanwhile, let's not shoot foul shots when a foul is committed on a throw in and officiate everthing else like we always have, instead of having people call violations on that were never intended to be called as violations.

Spirit and Intent.... It's not that hard !!

I agree, but that will not stop someone, somewhere down the road saying that they should be enforced as written....we've been there so many times it is bound to happen again.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by camron rust

i agree, but that will not stop someone, somewhere down the road saying that they should be enforced as written....we've been there so many times it is bound to happen again.

+1

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I agree, but that will not stop someone, somewhere down the road saying that they should be enforced as written....we've been there so many times it is bound to happen again.

Those are the guys that don't get it and never will.

They don't like to study what we really do, they just like to argue.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by asdf

Those are the guys that don't get it and never will.

They don't like to study what we really do, they just like to argue.

But still, it is far better to write and well written rule...one that is simple, concise, and accurate than to depend on tribal knowledge about what they really meant.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Depend on tribal knowledge about what they really meant.

If an intelligent alien from Mars landed on Earth and wanted to become a basketball official, and he memorized the 2011-12 rule book backward, and forward, how would he know the purpose and intent of this team control rule, and the "intent" of this rule in regard to the backcourt rule?

[k_st8r]

the new team control rules effect all team control violations??? How??

Even though the team is in control during the throw in, no front court or back court status has been established.... no 3 second... 10 second... etc... what am I missing????

An additional situation... a1 in back court throws to a2 in front court, a2 turns his heaad and the ball hits a2 in the back.... upon contact of a2 two feet and the ball are in front court, ball bounces back to a1 in the back court... violation???? I know my call.. do you know yours??

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by asdf

Those are the guys that don't get it and never will.

They don't like to study what we really do, they just like to argue.

Not necessarily. Could be someone who begins his officiating career in the summer of 2012 and hasn't been privy to the previous wording of the rules. We've had quite a few debates here in which 5,6,7 year-old interps are used to provide the answer because the rule and case books aren't clear.

[deecee]

Best way i handle these debates pull in our rules interpreter and one or two members on the board and ask. HOW DO YOU WANT US TO HANDLE THIS?

Ends any debate and gives clear direction on which way to move forward.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by asdf

Let 'em "fix" them next year.

My fear is that they won't really fix it. They'll keep relying on "you know what we mean". Or nibble at the edges, trying to patch the problem instead of just scrapping it and starting over.