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Timeout
Here's some, (brace yourselves) I didn't know.
The league/s I play in states, "played under HS rules", I did know that... With that said, no I don't know them thar rules verbatim and no we don't get a rule book in our packets, just the local league supplements concerning, rosters, Ot lenght, foul and time out limits etc. But, just ordered some, rule book, case book and the simple illustrated book as well. Yes, if you get me curious enough I'll go off and learn.. As I am the Bill Russell/Len Wilkens type "player coach" for my team/s. And just waiting for my grand studs to wanna learn the game.. My books won't be here before next game, can you fill me in. 1. The other night, we are down 2, with less than 30 sec. on the clock, bad guys with the ball in their front court. One of our guys gets a hand on the ball and knocks it free, towards the end line. Another of our guys hustles and tracks it down, as he's going out of bounds with possesion and airborn, he requests TIME OUT. No whistle, until he lands out of bounds. Bad guys ball! Ref informs me that "a player can not call time as he's heading out of bounds." I'd never heard that before, and have never seen it ruled that way. I've played "organized hoops" since 1969, youth, school and very good rec ball. I know I've done it scores of times throughout my playing days/ze and of course witnessed it on scores more.. 2. Ensuing inbounds play, we foul, they are in the 1-1. Ref tossed ball to shooter who takes a couple dribbles, as he is setting to shoot a fellow offensive player sprints down and takes a spot on the lane? Is this not a violation? End line ref say's "the guy was already there or I wouldn't have given the shooter the ball." The ref near 1/2 court who I'm standing next and asking in his ear, "isn't that a violation?" say's, "I didn't see him enter." I say that's why I'm standing here pointing and talking in yer ear." He say's "sorry I didn't see it." I didn't bother with the 3rd guy it seemed pretty fruitless by then. 3. Another unrelated, but again seems different too me? "Travel calls" seem to be way up, is there POE out there this year? I've heard it now about "4-5" times, "he picked up the pivot foot." In my simple mind, a player can indeed pick up the pivot foot, just can't put it back down. Has something changed? By the way, I am a master at the jump stop/step through or reverse pivot, so I know, I pick up my pivot foot, this continues to go uncalled as has been normal the past few decades. I don't know, so here I am, does this ole dog need to learn new tricks?
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SLAS |
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You Can Look It Up ...
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Under NFHS rules, this is an immediate violation on the shooting team and the nonshooting team should have gotten the ball for a back court endline throwin. But if the officials didn't see it, then they missed it, and they can't call what they don't see.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 01:44pm. |
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[QUOTE=BillyMac;795447]Under NFHS (high school) rules the official should have granted the player a timeout. Not sure about NCAA, or NBA, rule sets.
BillyMac, Maybe I am wrong, but I seem to remember the rule about being able to call a timeout while airborne has changed recently.. Do you have a current rules/casebook reference? |
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[QUOTE=swkansasref33;795448]
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I'll add; in discussion with the crew post game, they all agreed that "the time out can't be granted" and that "it was not a change."
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SLAS |
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Waves, Particles, Matter, Energy ???
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While I'm unsure about the NCAA rule, I'm 100% sure that the timeout will be granted in such a situation under NFHS (high school) rules. Hopefully one of the esteemed members of this Forum will be moseying along shortly to confirm my interpretation. I guess that they're all watching football, or raking leaves, as I'm about to do in a few minutes..
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:11pm. |
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grant the timeout
[QUOTE=soundedlikeastrike;795449]Might not be an esteemed member but see Rule 5-8-3a. A timeout can be granted when the ball is at the disposal or in CONTROL of a player of the team requesting the timeout. (NFHS) There is nothing that I've read that says deny the request if the player in control is airborne or about to go OOB.
Last edited by billyu2; Sun Oct 23, 2011 at 02:16pm. |
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Rule 5, Section 12. Timeouts Not Granted Art. 1. No timeouts shall be granted: c. To a player or coach when an airborne player’s momentum is carrying him/her out of bounds or into the backcourt. NBA Rule 5, Section VII-Timeout Requests e. A player shall not be granted any timeout if both of his feet are in the air and any part of his body has broken the vertical plane of the boundary line. This rule also applies to the midcourt line except during throw-ins in the last two minutes of the fourth or any overtime period. As others have said, under NFHS rules, there is no prohibition on granting a timeout to an airborne player going out of bounds.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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[QUOTE=billyu2;795452]
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Is there a protest mechanism in hoops? I'm really more worried about the ref's, if 3 of em agree, how many more?
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SLAS |
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[QUOTE=soundedlikeastrike;795485]Pretty much up to the league.
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There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did. |
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As for picking up the pivot foot, a player who lifts his pivot before releasing the dribble has traveled. As for your jump stop/step, if you jump off one foot, ypou must land simultaneously on both feet. Then, you CANNOT step with either foot.
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"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith |
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5-4-2 ...
The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee does not recognize protests.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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No timeout call: 1. We delt with it fine, not much too say when your slacked jawed and wondering how we're gonna pull this mess out (the game that is.) I'd prefer to deal with it by letting the Assoc. know they've got at least 3 guys believing this. The lane violation: 2. I've seen it called plenty over the years, had one last night in fact, we're shooting, one of our guys leans in loses his balance and enters the lane, whistle, bad guys ball. I don't know ref assignments but I was standing just behind one of em near the table, I can't imagine how he didn't see it, the other ref FLE, the player walked between him and shooter. I watched it, my bench guys behind me saw it? I believe the crew either didn't see it or they didn't know it? Either way, nothing wrong with communicating with the assoc., just in case. The walks: 3. True. Appeal? No. Protest, (like official), basketball players do not miss bases, leave early nor bat out of order. Say a shot carooms off the rim, straight up over the the top of the BB falling directly behind the rim, an offensive player catches it and lays in a nice reverse lay-in. I'm sure everyone agree that ruling is against the rules. If the crew say's it good, there is nothing in place to get this one right? Did it cost us the game? If the timeout is granted; we've 20 or so ticks left, have the throw in on the base line, a bucket full of plays, 3 shooters, and two dunkers on the floor. As it turned out there up 2 with the throw in, we gotta foul em, they hit both ends now we're down 4. We gotta good look at a 3 missed, chased down a long bound and launched a prayer, the D did a nice job of staying away from us so as not to commit the 3 and 1 we were looking for. But: We were up 4 with at about 2:15-20, with the ball and in the bonus, we turned it over TWICE, then broke down and lost "both" there shooters and gave up two TRES, so my feeling, no, neither of these calls cost us the game. Now all those phantom walks, that's a different story..kidding of course. BBRef: I'll argue with ya about these statements: but again my books are in the mail, go easy on me. No, it's not a POE, Players just watch the NBA and think they can walk all over the court. So we constantly have to call it. SLAS: I Disagree: I haven't watched other than SC hi-lits since the PSD's (Post Sonic Days). And when I did even as a young impressionable kid, the last thing I watched was the feet. As for picking up the pivot foot, a player who lifts his pivot before releasing the dribble has traveled. SLAS: This sounds nearly impossible, a 3-4 year old first trying to dribble perhaps. What about a lay-in? The pivot foot gets picked up there, drop step, step through. I think, the pivot foot can indeed be picked up, just not put back down, unless, the dribble is released. Side question: What does release mean? Hit the floor or released from the hand/s? As for your jump stop/step, if you jump off one foot, ypou must land simultaneously on both feet. Then, you CANNOT step with either foot. SLAS: I can not fathom jumping off "one foot" to execute a jump stop. So where then? I pick up my dribble as I launch off both feet, I land simultaneously, I then pivot on which ever foot I can to get some seperatation from the D. Decades, I've been employing and coaching this, I get called ever now and again, not sure but I'd guess less than 1% of the time. Thank guys.
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The other kind of jump stop is when a player ends his dribble/gathers the ball with a foot on the floor, jumps off that foot, and lands with both feet...or ends the dribble while airborne, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot, and lands on both feet simultaneously (required). In this case, a player would not be able to pivot on either foot. As described above, those are the rulings for NFHS and NCAA. For the NBA, the pivot foot is established slightly different so that in the first two examples, one could pivot while in the very last one, you couldn't.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. Last edited by APG; Fri Oct 28, 2011 at 02:40am. |
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