Frontcourt status question for FIBA officials

[Jay R]

The question below was a case question that I found for FIBA rules. When I first read it, I thought the answer was No because it would be a BC violation. Turns out the answer is Yes. Am I the only one who thinks that FIBA is not consistent here. If A3 had jumped from the FC and caught the ball in the air and landed in the BC, it would have been a BC violation. Yet this play is legal.
Comments?

Team A has the ball for a throw-in at the centre line following an unsportsmanlike foul. Player A3 receives the in-bounds pass with his left foot on the floor completely in the frontcourt and his right foot off the floor.
A3 then puts his right foot down on the floor in the backcourt. Shall the official start an 8-second count?

[Pantherdreams]

Question is poorly worded.

Keys: A- Following unsportsmanlike so the ball is no entered at half and the offense has both courts.

B - Front court status cannot be obtained by a player or team until the ball and both feet are in the front court.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Jay R

The question below was a case question that I found for FIBA rules. When I first read it, I thought the answer was No because it would be a BC violation. Turns out the answer is Yes. Am I the only one who thinks that FIBA is not consistent here. If A3 had jumped from the FC and caught the ball in the air and landed in the BC, it would have been a BC violation. Yet this play is legal.
Comments?

Team A has the ball for a throw-in at the centre line following an unsportsmanlike foul. Player A3 receives the in-bounds pass with his left foot on the floor completely in the frontcourt and his right foot off the floor.
A3 then puts his right foot down on the floor in the backcourt. Shall the official start an 8-second count?

Article 28.1.2; briefly, the team in control of the ball causes it to be in the front court when

• it is not in player control and touches the front court or an opponent (or an official) who has some parts of their body in contact with the front court, or
• it is in player control of a non dribbler who has both feet entirely in contact with the front court, or
* it is in player control of a dribbler who has both feet entirely in contact with the front court and it touches the front court.

In this case none of these conditions is verified and so the eight second count starts as soon as the player gains possession in the back court (that is, when the right foot touches the back court).

Ciao

[Jay R]

eg-italy,

So A3 jumps from his frontcourt catches the pass which came from the backcourt and lands in the backcourt. The ball never had frontcourt status?

[ref3309]

Jay R; If your question implies that Team A was passing the ball from their backcourt and A3 jumps from the frontcourt catches the pass and then lands in Team A's backcourt - a backcourt violation has occurred. A3 has front court status when he jumped; when he touches the ball it is deemed to have achieved frontcourt status. When he lands in the backcourt the violation has occurred. The three conditions for a backcourt violation have occurred, Team A control of the ball, Team A last to touch in the frontcourt, Team A first to touch in the backcourt.

Slightly different scenario, if A3 intercepted an opponent's pass he could jump from the frontcourt gain control while airborne and legally land in the backcourt. FIBA made this rule change (or exception if you will) in 2008.

[Adam]

What if A3 is catching a throw in pass that originated in the BC or division line? FIBA rules fascinate me.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Jay R

eg-italy,

So A3 jumps from his frontcourt catches the pass which came from the backcourt and lands in the backcourt. The ball never had frontcourt status?

Yep.

Ciao

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by ref3309

Jay R; If your question implies that Team A was passing the ball from their backcourt and A3 jumps from the frontcourt catches the pass and then lands in Team A's backcourt - a backcourt violation has occurred. A3 has front court status when he jumped; when he touches the ball it is deemed to have achieved frontcourt status. When he lands in the backcourt the violation has occurred. The three conditions for a backcourt violation have occurred, Team A control of the ball, Team A last to touch in the frontcourt, Team A first to touch in the backcourt.

Wrong. The front court status of a player is irrelevant when judging whether the ball has attained front court status. There's no "Ball returned in the backcourt" violation if the ball never had frontcourt status. In your situation the ball is not in the frontcourt when A3 touches it.

Ciao

[ref3309]

eg-Italy,
I'll respectfully disagree. The frontcourt status of a player catching a pass from his teammate while airborne and then landing in the backcourt is a violation. As evidence I offer these plays from the 2011 CABO interpretations manual (all have been reviewed and approved by FIBA) as well as from the 2010 FIBA interpretations manual

In Team A’s backcourt, A1 makes a throw-in pass to A3 who leaps from Team A’s frontcourt, catches the ball and then lands in Team A’s backcourt. Has A3committed a violation for illegally returning the ball to the backcourt?
Yes. A3 does not establish a new control for Team A which was already in control of the ball.
© Copyright Canadian Association of Basketball Officials, April 2011

Example 3:
Thrower-in A4 in his frontcourt attempts a pass to A3. A3 jumps from his backcourt, catches the ball while airborne and lands
(a) With both feet in his backcourt.
(b) Straddling the centre line.
(c) Straddling the centre line and then dribbles or passes the ball to his backcourt.
Interpretation:
Team A violation. Thrower-in A4 has established the team A control of the ball in the frontcourt before A3 caught the ball while airborne and landed in his backcourt. In all cases A3 has illegally returned the ball to the backcourt.
FIBA Official Interpretations 2010/LK

[Jay R]

eg-italy,

ref3309 is right, that play is in the 2010 FIBA Interpretations and it is a backcourt violation.

Which brings me back to my original point. I don't see the consistency. When you jump with both feet and catch the ball, it's a violation. If you have one foot on the floor, it's legal. American rule sets are more consistent.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by ref3309

eg-Italy,
I'll respectfully disagree. The frontcourt status of a player catching a pass from his teammate while airborne and then landing in the backcourt is a violation. As evidence I offer these plays from the 2011 CABO interpretations manual (all have been reviewed and approved by FIBA) as well as from the 2010 FIBA interpretations manual

In Team A’s backcourt, A1 makes a throw-in pass to A3 who leaps from Team A’s frontcourt, catches the ball and then lands in Team A’s backcourt. Has A3committed a violation for illegally returning the ball to the backcourt?
Yes. A3 does not establish a new control for Team A which was already in control of the ball.
© Copyright Canadian Association of Basketball Officials, April 2011

Example 3:
Thrower-in A4 in his frontcourt attempts a pass to A3. A3 jumps from his backcourt, catches the ball while airborne and lands
(a) With both feet in his backcourt.
(b) Straddling the centre line.
(c) Straddling the centre line and then dribbles or passes the ball to his backcourt.
Interpretation:
Team A violation. Thrower-in A4 has established the team A control of the ball in the frontcourt before A3 caught the ball while airborne and landed in his backcourt. In all cases A3 has illegally returned the ball to the backcourt.
FIBA Official Interpretations 2010/LK

It seems that FIBA is disagreeing with itself. How can the ball return to the backcourt without ever having been in the frontcourt?

Example 3 you're citing has nothing to do with this case, as the ball already has frontcourt status when it's in the hands of A4.

Ciao

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by Jay R

eg-italy,

ref3309 is right, that play is in the 2010 FIBA Interpretations and it is a backcourt violation.

Which brings me back to my original point. I don't see the consistency. When you jump with both feet and catch the ball, it's a violation. If you have one foot on the floor, it's legal. American rule sets are more consistent.

I agree with you heartfully.

Ciao