Block/charge

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Awww, it's OK...someone get Chuck his bottle....

Will this do?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
We've discussed before that in NBA and NCAA Women's play, this is not a double foul.

In the NBA, each player would be assessed a foul (no team fouls) and a jump ball would be administered.

Chuck

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

In the NBA, each player would be assessed a foul (no team fouls) and a jump ball would be administered.

Chuck

That's not was posted here a couple of weeks ago when this subject came up. That's what I was basing my remark on.

[ChuckElias]

Somebody may have gotten their info a little confused. Or maybe they meant WNBA. They might administer it differently. I'm not sure.

Chuck

[DrakeM]

Even though the "differing of opinions" provision is in the NBA rule book, I know that most would still try and get only a block or a charge, and not go with the double foul.
By the way, WNBA has the same provision.

[ChuckElias]

I know that's what they'd try to do, but once opposite signals are given, by rule they have to assess both, don't they?

Chuck

[DrakeM]

If you're saying STRICTLY by rule, yes.
There's still alot of flexibility, and you rarely see it done that way.

[ChuckElias]

That's partly b/c I rarely see opposite signals given. In fact, in all the NBA games I've watched on TV and in person, I honestly cannot remember ever seeing officials give opposite signals in a block/charge situation. Great discipline. Seriously.

Chuck

[Zebra1]

I look at it this way: This is a game of angles. If one official calls PC, he/she must have seen something FROM THEIR ANGLE, and if the other comes up with block, he/she must have seen something to justify that FROM THEIR ANGLE. I don't see why one official should "overrule" another. Who's to say who's right. Why should one back down and not the other. Granted PATIENT WHISTLES will obviously solve this problem on the floor. But we, as officials, get into the emotions of the game just like the players whether we like it or not. And that's where we get in a hurry. Just my 2 cents worth.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Zebra1
I look at it this way: This is a game of angles. If one official calls PC, he/she must have seen something FROM THEIR ANGLE, and if the other comes up with block, he/she must have seen something to justify that FROM THEIR ANGLE.

I agree that it's a game of angles, see the whole play, referee the defense, etc. But the bottom line is that the play cannot be both a PC and a block. Either the defender was there legally or he was not.

More often than not, one of the officials didn't have a good enough look at the play or picked up the play late. In those cases, the crash invariably looks like a block.

Who's to say who is right? Out on the court, probably nobody. It happens too fast, and you don't want to start reviewing judgment calls. But the tape will tell you who was right after the game.

The key is to decide ahead of time how the situation will be handled. Who will call it if it comes from the T's area? Who will call it if it's a secondary defender? Once you answer those questions in your pre-game, you have to have the discipline to hold your secondary signal unless the crew has agreed that it's your call.

Just my two cents.

Chuck

[walt]

Chuck, your last statement says it best. Once signals are given, that changes everything. Patient whistles and not giving preliminary signals avoids this mess almost all the time. However, some supervisors want you going right to the back of your head (PC) instead of holding with a fist. Same for the block. That's what gets people in trouble in those gray dual coverage areas or areas where lines of responsibility meet. It's always easy to "see the tape" if one's available. However, I think you'd agree on the floor it's a reactionary decision. The prleiminary signals get you trouble. It's a must discussion in pregame. After signals are given, double foul is the only way out. That's why it's in the book and a topic of discussion at clinics and camps.

[Zebra1]

I saw a great "communications" play for the officials in the NCAA, I believe, in the first round. The classic double whistle, coming out of C's area. C and L both had whistles on it. They paused, looked at each other, then realizing whose call it was, C cracks his whistle again and goes PC. I love watching those types of plays when the officials execute properly. (better yet when I'm on the floor cracking the whistle myself!) I got a kick out of it, when all of my buddies I was watching the game with, non officials I might add, were like what the hell was that?