bench-clearing brawl in state final

[JRutledge]

Look, any school association can do whatever they want to. If they wanted the kids that were in the fight to participate in the rest of the game, that was their decision. The NF is there to bring some uniformity to the rules, but it does not mean all rules have to be strictly followed. State associations come up with individual rules all the time. And in our state they are considering banning headbands all together over some gang situations. I am sure if this goes through, they will not wait for the NF to change it's rules. Most states are members of the NF, but it does not mean they do not create or have their own set of rules that apply to a specific state for specific situations. They might suspend many of the players that were involved from participating next year games. We just do not know right now. The officials did the right thing and let the State Administrators handle the situation.

Peace

[Dubby]

I don't think anyone here is blaming the officials. They did what they were told to do. We all know that high school leagues have the authority to modify the NF rules. My problem is that coaches, no matter what level, say that there biggest gripe with officials isn't about what is called but rather the consistency with which it is called. I think this should be extended to the high school league as well. In my opinion the rules shouldn't change because it's 'a big game.'

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dubby


In my opinion the rules shouldn't change because it's 'a big game.'

Well, life is not fair. Life is not always consistent. Life does not always have to make sense. The state officials wanted to finish the game. They figured out a way to finish the game. If they had to change some rules or modify something to finish the game, so be it.

Rules are changed all the time in real life to accomplish goals or to solve problems. Whether it be the legal system, our voting rules/rights or admission standards, rules are always changed and modified. And yes, the kids will learn that you modify situations for certain event. I am sure the kids realize when they go to church they act one way, and when they go to school they act another way, then when they are with their friends they behave in another manner. Let us not make everything such a big deal. This was done so that everyone could see. I am sure the team that won the State Title will always be remembered as the "kids that were in that fight." It will take away that from their accomplishment the rest of their lives. I bet no one will ever talk about the game, they will only talk about the fight or the events that happen. Funny, we have not once talked about the great plays or the great comeback or dominate performance that this team had or even the double whistle that should not have been called (hypothetically speaking). I would assume the same will go about the same with the people that were there or saw it on TV. Punishment enough from my point of view. But that is my opinion.

Peace

[Malcolm Tucker]

I have read all the posts here to hopefully not say what has already been said.

Here in Australia we try to teach our officials to avoid situations that have a propensity for trouble. Giving the ball to an opposition player right in front of the other teams's bench is one of these. The officials have think beyond the rule book and have a feel for the game.

As far as tossing only 1 player I think this is were you guys have a problem. From reading this board I know in some regions coaches and administrators seem to have far too much input into referee appointments and some referees then no doubt set about protecting your jobs to a degree.

The answer here it seems to me was toss at least 1 player from the other side and let the game go on. This then shows an even handedness and neither team can complain that they were disadvantaged.

I agree this is not strictly by the rules but nothing would have been served by tossing all the bench. The game would then have gone in the toilet.

You could have even made it 2 or 3 from each side so the players would get the message that it was a really stupid thing to do.

[A Pennsylvania Coach]

http://www.pennlive.com/hssports/boy...0060267820.xml

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by A Pennsylvania Coach
http://www.pennlive.com/hssports/boy...0060267820.xml

"What the probation does entail is periodic written reports from each school to its district committee to ensure that it has a sportsmanship policy in place and that the policy is being adhered to by its students. If either the district committee or the PIAA deems that either school has violated that policy, it could lose championship rights."

It seems ironic that there are sportsmanship rules (against fighting) in place that are not being enforced by the PIAA, but the PIAA wants these schools to have policies that ARE enforced.

[Dan_ref]

What a mess.

Of course I wasn't there, and of course I can see both sides of the argument, but for sure the PA authorities could hold their heads up higher & not avert anyone's eyes if they would simply have followed the letter of the fighting rules & let the chips fall where they might.

The fight began as a Sto-Rox player, junior John Geiger, was attempting to inbound the ball in front of the Trinity bench when he whirled and struck Trinity sophomore guard Matt Wesner in the face with his knee. Geiger then struck Wesner twice with a closed first and missed a third punch as Trinity players and coaches attempted to push Geiger away.
...
In the process, Sto-Rox player Adam DiMichele approached the fight but was rushed by Trinity player Jonathan Smith, a junior with senior eligibility. DiMichele initially avoided Smith, but the two eventually swung across the floor and ended up near the boundary across from the Sto-Rox bench.

Exactly what triggered Geiger's reaction is still unclear; last week's PIAA hearing into the matter was closed to the public.

However, in press interviews after the game, Geiger claimed he had been grabbed in the crotch area by a Trinity player and that prompted him to turn and strike, as it turned out, Wesner.

The Patriot-News reviewed two of the four available tapes of the incident in the office of Trinity athletics director Jim Hudson yesterday.

While there is no angle to confirm what happened to Geiger other than a tangling of feet, what could positively be confirmed is this: Wesner never touched Geiger.

A frame-by-frame review of the best angle, shot by abc27 photographer Mike Torchia, showed that Wesner, who was just to Geiger's left (in the camera angle), was sitting in his chair with his hands draped across his legs.
...

After reading this I'm left feeling that if I was responsible for Wesner that Geiger kid would have left under police custody. There's a term for what he did: felony assault.

[rainmaker]

PA Coach -- How badly was the Wesner kid hurt? It sounded as though he could have been pretty badly damaged, but they don't say much about it. It makes no difference to the officiating situation, I'm just wondering.