One Last Play

[tref]

Originally Posted by CLH

Well, theres an old saying about elephants and ants when deciding fouls. If someone has to look on film and tell me look at this particular second of the play to find some little contact with a hand, that doesn't even rise to ant size for me. It may even go down to flea size I would stay away from "yeah but look at this" on reviewing a play. The decision to be made on this play is not about that hand, it's the b/c, no need to over analyze it.

Just my thoughts partner!

Ok, if impedes away from the ball are mere fleas to you, so be it.

If we are allowing A1 to play through it (as he is the intended receiver) I got a block... either way its "staying here."

Originally Posted by tomegun

For those who say they wish he would have got behind the play before inbounding the ball: how far would you like him to go? He isn't especially close to the inbounder and at some point he has to open up as opposed to moving back - he could end up "bouncing" the ball from 20 feet away otherwise.

I like to be a few steps behind the deepest in bounds matchup (when possible). I understand about opening up to the court, but I also want to put myself in the best position possible to see plays like this in its entirety & also to referee the quck steal. I've found that positioning myself to be one play ahead of the throw-in results in getting unexpected plays correct.
IMO if a steal occured in this play the T (new L) is already beat.

[JugglingReferee]

For a first year official, I think this guy did quite well.

The learning points are:

• when there is no pressure on the thrower-in, focus more on the action in-bounds, and only observe the TI with your peripheral vision
• with the in-bounds action deeper than the TI, the administering official should be further away from the TI
• for a foul against Team A, it is a charging foul, with the appropriate signal

As for the decision on the call, I believe it is very close. I have a block for the same reason APG mentioned. However, the action is so very close to a charge that if they were consistently called a charge throughout the game, I wouldn't say too much.

[CLH]

[QUOTE=tref;784651]Ok, if impedes away from the ball are mere fleas to you, so be it.[QUOTE]

Clear cut impedes, you bet, get 'em everytime...but, this particular play, if you're going to deem that illegal contact, then you are going to have a foul on every single play and every single throwin all night long. I never said don't allow freedom of movement, what I say is, this simply isn't enough to put a whistle on.

[tref]

Originally Posted by CLH

Clear cut impedes, you bet, get 'em everytime...but, this particular play, if you're going to deem that illegal contact, then you are going to have a foul on every single play and every single throwin all night long. I never said don't allow freedom of movement, what I say is, this simply isn't enough to put a whistle on.

Yeah, you're right! I stopped the frame-by-frame & went back to the entire play & that left hand piece is a small part of the big picture... block.

[SWMOzebra]

Going to have to go with a push on the offensive player as well. There is contact by the defender, but not enough IMO to create a disadvantage.

Yes, it would have been nice for the ref to have been looking at the players instead of the thrower-in and yes, it would have been nice for him to give the correct signal ... but I believe in the end the right player was penalized.

[Jay R]

I have a block.

1. As some stated, the defender is moving into the offensive player.

2. The offensive player does not have the ball so now time and distance apply similar to a screen. This is similar to blocking a cutter, you can't just jump in front of a cutter and expect an offensive foul when he runs you over. He needs time and distance.

[APG]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

Going to have to go with a push on the offensive player as well. There is contact by the defender, but not enough IMO to create a disadvantage.

Yes, it would have been nice for the ref to have been looking at the players instead of the thrower-in and yes, it would have been nice for him to give the correct signal ... but I believe in the end the right player was penalized.

The problem with how he went about getting the call is he guessed on the play...you can tell because the official turns his head when he sees bodies on the floor and hesitates before making a call.

[tref]

Originally Posted by allpurposegamer

the problem with how he went about getting the call is he guessed on the play...you can tell because the official turns his head when he sees bodies on the floor and hesitates before making a call.

+1

[btaylor64]

This is an impede on the defense in my opinion. Onus to be legal is on the defense. The off. fakes backward forcing the def. to come forward, now off. tries to go by and gets checked up by the shoulder of the defense. good play.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by tref

I like to be a few steps behind the deepest in bounds matchup (when possible). I understand about opening up to the court, but I also want to put myself in the best position possible to see plays like this in its entirety & also to referee the quck steal. I've found that positioning myself to be one play ahead of the throw-in results in getting unexpected plays correct.
IMO if a steal occured in this play the T (new L) is already beat.

Understood, got it, I agree. Now, how far would you go with this? To me, this is one of those "It depends" situations (not the adult diapers either). Yes, it is a good idea to be behind the deepest players, but are you going to "bounce" the ball 20 feet from the inbounder?

I don't have any set distance, but there is a point where I will open up instead of moving back. I don't think the official in the video is too far from where he should be. I could tell he was relatively inexperienced when watching the video, but he is doing OK for someone in their first year.

[tref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Understood, got it, I agree. Now, how far would you go with this? To me, this is one of those "It depends" situations (not the adult diapers either). Yes, it is a good idea to be behind the deepest players, but are you going to "bounce" the ball 20 feet from the inbounder?

I don't have any set distance, but there is a point where I will open up instead of moving back. I don't think the official in the video is too far from where he should be. I could tell he was relatively inexperienced when watching the video, but he is doing OK for someone in their first year.

You're right.. it all depends. Just like any other positioning, I believe we have to have a feel for when to open up vs. stepping back when different throw-in situations arise.

Yeah the new guy isnt afraid to blow, gotta give him credit for putting a whistle on it!

[Camron Rust]

Block. Moving forward.

[Pantherdreams]

Well there are a couple of different ways to look at this (imo)

1 - If I'm the official in that situation and have not been looking at the play and suddenly this happens. I would like to think i'ld swallow my whistle (and my pride) on a play where I would be guessing based on the result. So in that exact situation as that guy (no call).

2 - Seeing the play the way it developed. I'm probably going to go push on the offense or maybe even double foul. My feeling based on what I'm seeing on camera is the offense isn't trying to get by the defense but rather crashing into defense trying to cause excessive contact and make a non-basketball play. Just as I'm seeing it. Either way I'm going to have a short convo with both after the call about playing basketball and not tag with each other.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

...or maybe even double foul. My feeling based on what I'm seeing on camera is the offense isn't trying to get by the defense but rather crashing into defense trying to cause excessive contact and make a non-basketball play. Just as I'm seeing it. Either way I'm going to have a short convo with both after the call about playing basketball and not tag with each other.

Come on!!!!!

[APG]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

2 - Seeing the play the way it developed. I'm probably going to go push on the offense or maybe even double foul. My feeling based on what I'm seeing on camera is the offense isn't trying to get by the defense but rather crashing into defense trying to cause excessive contact and make a non-basketball play. Just as I'm seeing it. Either way I'm going to have a short convo with both after the call about playing basketball and not tag with each other.

Why is there a need to talk to anyone after this? This is just a regular basketball play...opponents do run into each other every now and then. I don't even know how you come up with a double foul...that seems like you're making a cop-out because you don't want to make the tough call.