Why No Signal?

[APG]

I don't know what's stopping officials from discussing a play even if one comes up with a travel/jump ball and the other a foul...in fact I've seen this scenario play out plenty of times. Get together...discuss the order of events...tell the coach one event happened before the other...continue on.

The only reason I can see for going hand straight up is possibly if the gym is real noisy...and to slow down an official that needs it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I don't know what's stopping officials from discussing a play even if one comes up with a travel/jump ball and the other a foul...in fact I've seen this scenario play out plenty of times. Get together...discuss the order of events...tell the coach one event happened before the other...continue on.

The only reason I can see for going hand straight up is possibly if the gym is real noisy...and to slow down an official that needs it.

Which looks better, two officials selling conflicting calls (foul vs travel, e.g.) or giving a stop clock signal which, on its own, doesn't actually tell you what they're calling or on who?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Which looks better, two officials selling conflicting calls (foul vs travel, e.g.) or giving a stop clock signal which, on its own, doesn't actually tell you what they're calling or on who?

Depends...if a coach knows the difference between a fist up and a hand up (and a lot of them do the higher up you go), it doesn't matter because the coach is going to know you had different calls. Realistically I don't think a coach will be too mad either way if you get together and discuss what you have...either way because you got together, discussed the play, and worked to "get it right."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Depends...if a coach knows the difference between a fist up and a hand up (and a lot of them do the higher up you go), it doesn't matter because the coach is going to know you had different calls. Realistically I don't think a coach will be too mad either way if you get together and discuss what you have...either way because you got together, discussed the play, and worked to "get it right."

With just a fist/hand, the the coach doesn't know exactly which foul or violation is being indicated yet. I just think that the more you signal, the harder it is to go back and change it. Even if you get it right in the end, you've made it a bit more difficult to sell the next one.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

With just a fist/hand, the the coach doesn't know exactly which foul or violation is being indicated yet. I just think that the more you signal, the harder it is to go back and change it. Even if you get it right in the end, you've made it a bit more difficult to sell the next one.

I doubt the coach cares what type of violation it would have been...all he's thinking is he might be "screwed" out of a potential turnover or assessed a "phantom foul"...so in that case I don't think you've really made anything any harder/easier either way. And to be realistic, this situation is almost always a travel vs. foul or maybe held ball v. foul.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I doubt the coach cares what type of violation it would have been...all he's thinking is he might be "screwed" out of a potential turnover or assessed a "phantom foul"...so in that case I don't think you've really made anything any harder/easier either way. And to be realistic, this situation is almost always a travel vs. foul or maybe held ball v. foul.

I think he's more likely to be upset once he sees a signal that clearly favors his team (a block if his team was on offense or a travel if his team is on defense) and thinks you already gave him the ball only to have it reversed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

We were taught, when you blow that whistle, you better have a hand up, a fist up, or two thumbs up.

Never really gave it much thought, but why have a "stop the clock" signal on violations? Is there any time the whistle itself doesn't stop the clock?

Coaches do look for that preliminary signal, especially on a double whistle.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

This is exactly why I hate going straight to the jump ball signal instead of putting my hand in the air first.

I've gone to this as well, for the same reason

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

This is exactly why I hate going straight to the jump ball signal instead of putting my hand in the air first.

In what mechanics rule set (NFHS, IAABO, NCAA-M, NCAA-W, FIBA, NBA) are you supposed to put your hand up before giving the a held ball signal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In what mechanics rule set (NFHS, IAABO, NCAA-M, NCAA-W, FIBA, NBA) are you supposed to put your hand up before giving the a held ball signal?

You're not, at least FED and NCAA. That's his point -- it can cause a "double call" if one is signalling an held ball and the other a foul / violation. I dont' know that it's any different from one signalling a foul and the other a violation, though..

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

At least FED and NCAA. That's his point -- it can cause a "double call" if one is signalling an held ball and the other a foul / violation. I dont' know that it's any different from one signalling a foul and the other a violation, though..

From my perspective, it's a bit easier to deal with some coaches if one ref has an open palm and one has a closed fist as opposed to a closed fist and a jump ball signal. Merely a matter of preference.

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In what mechanics rule set (NFHS, IAABO, NCAA-M, NCAA-W, FIBA, NBA) are you supposed to put your hand up before giving the a held ball signal?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

At least FED and NCAA. That's his point -- it can cause a "double call" if one is signalling an held ball and the other a foul / violation. I dont' know that it's any different from one signalling a foul and the other a violation, though..

With all due respect, the FED signal to stop the clock for a jump/held ball is two thumbs up, nothing more.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BLydic

With all due respect, the FED signal to stop the clock for a jump/held ball is two thumbs up, nothing more.

Yes -- that's what I meant. I'll edit.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BLydic

With all due respect, the FED signal to stop the clock for a jump/held ball is two thumbs up, nothing more.

IAABO also.